The Public Policy/Administration Jobs Blog provides a forum for job-seekers seeking jobs in public affairs, public policy, and public management programs.
Tuesday, November 18, 2008
Archived Public Policy/Admin/Management Jobs 08-09
Discussion of job market developments for 2008-2009 searches
"Surely" departments will hire recent graduates to teach one course a year? Does no one here understand the dire straights of the economy? Faculty lines and sections are disappearing everywhere. Adjuncts aren't being reappointed.
I don't want to be a doomsday-er, but I also don't want us giving students false hope.
On that token, students should understand that nothing that isn't in writing is guaranteed. If your current department says they'll hold on to you in some capacity, get it in writing (yes, even if you trust them). Otherwise, assume you'll have no job. Yes, it's that bad.
And don't be foolish enough to turn down the opportunity to get a decent TT job. You can always move when things rebound if it's not the place for you. There are many heartbreaking stories out there of people who didn't seize opportunities, only to end up in even worse places, earning less money, etc.
I don't think adjunct opportunities are disappearing. The market is terrible if you're looking for a permanent position. But, unless current Faculty are going to have increased teaching loads, programs will need to find a way to provide their courses. Adjuncts (and visiting professors) are much cheaper than hiring a permanent Faculty member.
University of Pittsburgh did on-campus interviews in January. I don't know the outcome. As of a few weeks ago (maybe a month or so), WVU had selected a short list of candidates. As far as I know, both schools are still planning to fill their positions.
Adjunct lines may not be disappearing at your institution, but in the aggregate they most certainly are. Sections, especially electives, are being cut and adjuncts are being reappointed only if they're willing to teach more sections.
I'm not sure if I would refer to an adjunct "line" when referring to adjunct positions. Most adjuncts teach one class and have full-time employment elsewhere. Unless student enrollment drops dramatically for some reason, adjuncts will become an even more important component of departments as they delay making permanent hires. I wouldn't be surprised if in April/May/maybe June there is suddenly a need for adjuncts for the coming Fall to fill the void that is being left by non-filled Faculty positions. Just a guess.
^ I agree. In addition there seem to be more "lecturer" positions coming out (see the SPEA 4-4 position). That way they have more active "adjuncts" to cover more courses without having to pay the extra costs for a TT position.
I took one of these last year and I didn't get insurance or the other goodies. But I had a place to call home and a decent paycheck for 2 days a week of work. (Granted it was not a 4-4 load--eugh!)
IUPUI did bring in a couple of people, but decided not to hire this year...which is why we are seeing the lecturer position a week after those interviews.
Because they don't want to slyly sucker a tenure-track-worthy candidate into a horrible 2-year, research-required, high-teaching-load position. Better to advertise separately and at least be transparent about it.
It's not a legal issue to say, "Hey, this is our situation, our previous line is now gone, but this has come up. Is this something you would be interested in?" Then go from there...it happens. I've seen it.
Beggars can't be choosers, people. If some candidates are having this hard of a time finding a tenure track position, then why not lecture for a couple of years and move to the next opportunity when it presents itself?
This absolutist BS gets frustrating. Expand your minds a little...
Absolutism does not pay the bills. I have been looking for a TT job and it had not gone well. I am going to seek a management job in a non-profit or a think tank. In these dire economic times one should broaden their horizons and look for work outside of academia. At least you can use your skills to have a direct and long lasting effect on improving our communities. I have alot of respect for people who will hold out for a TT job but when you are facing making a meager amount of money being a lecturer a higher paying job outside of academia becomes very attractive.
Even before the economic crisis hit, an increasing percentage of doctoral students were opting not to pursue a career in academia. A recent article in the Chronicle of Higher Ed indicated that a declining percentage of graduating doctoral students think an academic position at a research university is worth pursuing. It was in interesting article.
I heard they invited candiates to their campus already. So I assume the offer will be soon out there if not already. Wish I was invited. ---- Does anyone know what is happening at WVU? Someone said they had shortlisted...
Why are there 12 universities listed as "position filled" but no entry for the name of the new hire? If the position is full, shouldn't a name be listed?
I think some of us who are filling in the filled area are doing so as a result of rejection letters that tell us the position was filled... which means we don't know who got the job. I don't really care who gets the job, unless that person is me.
I agree with 24/2/09 6:44 AM. I am more interested in the progress of the positions out there rather than 'who' got it, as it could help my "decisions & negotiations" I updated wiki when I got a rejection letter one time myself. (Of course, it is good to know 'who' got the jobs.)
Looking for advice from experienced assistants and associates out there. Given the state of the economy, this is hypothetical right now. But assume: 1. I'm 4-5 years through my tenure track. Love my job, love my institution, but my salary has lagged. 2. I know I could go get an outside offer if I wanted one. 3. Do I: -Tell my Dean I want more money, but I don't want to have to get an outside offer? -Go get the outside offer?
^ Tell the Dean. I know of cases where that works.
If that doesn't get you enough, go get the outside offer. But beware the outside offer will probably need to be at a peer or better institution and you really must be willing to take it if your current institution calls your bluff (or you lose all bargaining power and will never get that raise). So apply selectively.
I am an assistant in a similar position. Like the place, like the colleagues, like the work, and am woefully underpaid.
I think asking the Dean is worth a shot. In my case, the dean and the director just give the same line of "we have no money". If I had a counter, they would find the money.
If you are comfortable with the bluff - you should go on the market. We had two associates go on the market in the last 3 years. One got a great offer and our department let him go. The other got an equally great offer and the department gave him the house to stay. In the 2nd case, numerous junior and senior faculty went to the Dean and said "please don't let him leave".
So be careful, the counter-offer is contingent on the department valuing you. And, possibly getting a few faculty to lobby to keep you.
For anyone who hasn't seen the latest analysis by the Rockefeller Institute, any public university hiring next year or the year after should be considered a bonus (even in departments that have lost multiple faculty). More than one position at a given school would be a miracle.
Echoing the comments of the previous post, I am going on the market next year and have been consequently following the current year's market news closely. I have serious concerns that next year's market will be very bad, obviously due to budgets that are unlikely to improve and probably get worse.
It would be helpful to those looking for a job next year to know generally what the hiring situation across the country will be. I can project with near certainty that my department will not be hiring at all, despite a need. In fact, even assistantships are in jeopardy. What is the projected budget and hiring situation in other departments? Next year's job applicants need to know, in order to decide if they should consider options other than TT to achieve gainful employment.
I'm also on the market next year and not quite looking forward to it. I hear professors say it might be worth staying another year in light of current economic trends...and do what? Apply for food stamps? Why delay my completion any more than it has to be?
Our department also has a need to fill some faculty spots, and I highly doubt they'll even start talking about it until FY 2010-2011.
I don't think we could use the old "look for a job at a private university" scheme either, considering many of their situations are also jeopardized. I'm in a decent department, but private schools do not hire our folks. Sad, but true.
^^In all seriousness, I think it would be more efficient if people said states that might actually be hiring. I honestly believe at this point that no hiring is the default. So, maybe people can fire off random states where decent public universities may be hiring.
State of Georgia most likely not hiring TT. Chancellor considering furloughs, even for professors. At best adjunct positions, if that. Projected 10% budget cuts for 2010 on top of 10% this year. Not good.
Count out Florida, South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arizona, and New Mexico. Even Texas is finally feeling the heat, but it's in comparatively great shape. If a department in Texas needs people, it'll probably hire.
No, but Amherst is laying off 60 non-tenured faculty, supposedly including some tenure-track ones. I would assume that means the entire system is in trouble.
I received a letter from Portland State saying that either they filled the position or they selected finalists. I can't remember exactly what it said, but they did send out letters.
How will the current economic situation change universities in the long-run? With some schools laying off non-tenure track teaching staff, it looks like tenure track professors will eventually have to pick up the slack. That is fine with me. I'm just wondering what people think will happen in the long-run.
I have the belief that a number of people (obviously, not all and not the majority) in our profession spend too little time actually educating students. Will this have to change?
I think larger classes/fewer sections is the much more likely solution. In any good department, adjuncts only teach non-core electives--with relatively small classes at that--anyway.
Given modern-day tenure requirements at a research university, a 2-2 load is more than enough "educating" time. If tenure requirements weren't 99% research, 1% teaching, it would be a different story. As things stand now, the tenure system creates no incentive whatsoever to devote more than minimal attention to teaching. If they want more teaching, fine. But they'll have to adjust expectations for tenure by leaning more toward teaching.
When non-academics hear this, they always call us lazy. But then I ask if they'd want to do more of something at work that doesn't figure into their raises or promotions. The answer, invariably, is no.
Memphis has been filled. Very interested in knowing who was placed in the WVU public management line. Heard virtually nothing in the whole hiring process...
That connects me to the visiting faculty position at the Bridgewater! Did they decide already or anyone knows any progress? (Sorry to start discussing 'visiting' positions already here but this year's market gives me no choice :) )
Anyone know what's going on at OSU? For that matter, anyone know why there's so much less information this year? I'm not one of the ones obsessed with names. Just want to know where I stand.
OSU only sent out their EEO forms last week... I got the tiny envelope thinking that it was closing the chapter on OSU, but alas they just wanted to know what I was
^^I'd like to know this as well. I have a feeling it is a function of the departments themselves not knowing their status. Several have cut lines (including where I adjunct). It seems there is conflicting information on a few also e.g. PDX, UC Denver, UTSA, etc.
What a dismal hiring year. Fewer open positions and - surprisingly -fewer people applying for jobs. I thought from the search committee POV that it would be a good year for my institution, but apparently nobody wants to move if they can't sell their house.
It depends on the field, the desirability of the location, desirability of the job (teaching load, salary, etc.) and the prestige of the department/school. Public management searches always will garner more apps than other fields simply because there are more public management people than in any other field. Anywhere from 15 to 150 is typical in my experience.
110 seems a bit high given that UNCW is so low on prestige, but it is a bad economy and the market is saturated.
While we're on this topic, it is high time that people learn there are fields outside of public management. Why select into such a ridiculously crowded stable?
I think a lot of people choose that 'stable' because there are more jobs. I went outside it and found there were next to no jobs and even more competition (much from outside of PA)... and resigned myself to go back to PM.
I suggest looking even further from the 'stable' and consider non-academic careers. I was leaning this way even before the recent ecomonic crisis. I think this for two reasons. 1) it seems as though people are willing to give up any reasonable balance between work/family/personal life in pursuit of tenure. I'm not lazy, also I've managed to publish a few decent articles, but there is much more to life than tenure. More troubling is 2) some tenured faculty evaluating new faculty for tenure did not have to meet the same expectations that exist today in terms of publications. The profession seems obsessed with increasing expectations, which is fine, but it seems to be an expectation only for the new entrants to the field.
6:24, it's not so hard to achieve a "reasonable balance" between your personal and professional lives. But it does take some self discipline and ability to keep an eye on the eight ball. People make all kinds of choices in their lives about how they spend their time. It is possible -- even at a top school -- to forego a lot of B-list professional activities in exchange for enough high quality publishing and teaching to make tenure -- AND still get home in time for the kids' recitals and soccer practices. I know because I have.
"increasing expectations" As a non-tenure track instructor who's trying to get a tenure track position, I felt that the above posting about increasing expectations (publications particulalry)was agreeable. Are we getting higher expectations for job candidates (for rookies and fresh PhDs)? or maybe market saturation? or sunking economy's impact?
9:41, Thanks. It's nice to hear that a decent balance is achievable in academia. We don't hear enough of that and I feel some institutions discourage it (implicitly).
1:15, in my admittedly cynical opinion, it's probably a bit of hubris and a bit of market saturation. Tenure committee members (like many of us, including me) tend to think more highly of our past accomplishments than is likely warranted. This then gets carried over into expectations for junior faculty.. similar to the old phrase told to kids ... "when I was your age I used to walk up hill, with holes in my shoes, in a foot of snow to get to school." The market saturation allows these expectations to persist because a junior faculty person, if he/she doesn't meet them, can easily be replaced by a "newer" junior faculty person without much difficulty.
Can someone start up a board like poliscijobrumors.com? I think it would be great if we could extemporaneously discuss many different facets of being in policy. I would do it myself but have absolutely no technological skills. I just made it here after hearing about it for 3 years.
Expectations are rising and that's fine. If you're actually productive, no senior professor could discount what you're doing with a straight face. The discrepancy in productivity is becoming just too big (except for the top 5-10 PA honchos who publish 5 papers in a bad year) Also, having followed the job market for several years, it doesn't seem that there are that many apparently productive job market entrants (but plenty of smug applicants with *one* publication with their advisor.)
7:01, your dig at 9:41 suggests you don't believe that achieving a balance between work and personal life as a junior prof is possible without compromising publication quality. Since nobody gets tenure at a top school on case studies (not that there's anything wrong with them), I would assume that 9:41 knows what s/he is talking about.
5:49, I don't view 7:01's comment as a dig that much. In my department, you give all or nothing, even if it means sacrificing personal aspects of your life. That or you get the terminal contract...
Not entirely just, but it's the sad reality of where I am.
I still don't buy it (the 'all or nothing' argument). I'm at a top school, 2-2 schedule, and I made tenure here with my personal life intact. Surely there must be other people like me? That's why I argue that it's about your attitude toward your job, not their expectations of you. If you don't take control over your personal life, nobody will do it for you. Some people are victims, some are volunteers....
6:48 (25/5)is on the money! This has been a difficult year for many and that is leading to all kinds of questionable inferences... someone invoked case study of one to dispute contented successful top school academic -- I think some cynicism is helpful but lest we forget research design lessons, it is equally possible to invoke the case study of one argument for the person who raised the concern.
To paraphrase: Yes, Virginia there is happiness in academia. The caveat is that the happiness has little to do with the academic setting or how much or how little you accomplish... So, what does this mean for those who are pursuing PhDs now, find mentors who have work-life balance, are happy, and successful and see what you can learn about your personal case study of one from theirs.
Finally, it is your journey -- you are in-charge and you make it go where you want it go (whether or not you want to give yourself credit/blame for your successes and/or failures). Good luck!
Speaking of personal lives, what do you think about doctoral students who out pour their every emotion and gripe with the school in public venues - twitter, facebook, etc. Should we tell them to tone it down? I personally wouldn't take such behavior into consideration in the hiring process but I'll bet some search committee members would.
Why not let honest feelings prevail in social networking? Graduate school is rough and lonely, and some of these social networking sites provide an outlet otherwise unavailable to them. These "gripes" that students post should be used against what they could potentially contribute to the field. Nobody is perfect...
10:36's question is interesting in that it points out the potential hyprocrisy among academic types in terms of "academic freedom".
My own opinion is: 1. If I were a student I would publicly state my gripes. Too many schools take advantage of asymmetric information (less on the side of students) when they are choosing which school to attend. I've heard some faculty (and an associate dean) out-right lie to prospective students about a school's offerings. 2. As a new PhD at a new place of employment, I would not until I found a different place of employment.
Is "nope" in reference to any predictions for next year or to is anyone hiring for next year?
I doubt if anyone really knows what it will be like next year. A few positions have already been advertised for Fall 2010. Three are at LBJ School of Public Affairs. Some schools will have to hire, they have positions that must be filled.
I have a PA degree and I used to despise when Ivy League types were hired for PM positions. Then I read some real management literature and realized PM is management research in only the loosest sense.
^Based on what? Your perceptions alone? Of course there are going to be differences...traditional management doesn't give a crap about what the public sector researchers say, and conversely, everything that fits the norm of traditional (or as you put it "real") management will not conform to the public sector.
Exactly how much "real" management did you read in the first place?
Even the Ivy League folks know that the best PUBLIC management researchers do not come from their schools...
The Minnesota position was frozen and then unfrozen in April. They sent out an email to job applicants asking if they were still interesting/available. Apparently, they were not happy with their job pool since they reposted the position.
Indiana University-Bloomington is also hiring for two faculty positions in public and/or nonprofit management, one tenure track, one lecturer, subfields open. Interviews available at APSA, AOM, PMRA and ARNOVA.
Brudney is Maxwell's ultimate gain. Georgia was stupid to ever let him leave...he should have had a chair there. But no matter now. He's in the better place for what he does.
Yes, well said - by someone who obviously wasn't at Georgia. It's good that this blog isn't yet nearly as stupid as the poli sci blog, but statements like ^^ and ^ are plainly baseless, uninformed and ridiculous.
10:18 - don't be silly. They're baseless statements to you, but someone else's reality to them. Are you from Georgia?? I know discontented Georgia alumni AND faculty, so don't you think it's a bit ridiculous to assume this person has no grounds for that statement?
Discontented and overly chatty grad students are overhwhelmingly the whiners who can't hack it. Unfortunately, they have a disproportionately loud voice on this blog.
Brudney retired from UGA...allowing him to get a retirement payment from Georgia and a full paycheck from Cleveland. Who wouldn't want that deal? Hardly a reflection on UGA. Grow up people.
Wow, so I guess only grad students whine? Now you really are being ridiculous, and I hope I'm not your colleague because you're probably not much fun to work with.
Correction: any teacher who has spent 20 years in the Georgia university system is fully vested in a pension plan that the state provides. Brudney did his time and earned his pension.
it is too bad that the discussion is traveling down this negative route.
certainly we can all agree that student perspectives are very different from faculty perspectives. In all departments, students have little to no idea what is going on behind the closed doors at faculty meetings.
12:09 here. I can tell you without a doubt that I am not Jeff Brudney. I doubt he even knows this blog exists. I no longer have an affiliation with UGA, but I along with several other former faculty AND students can attest to the fact that things aren't very rosy there. Regardless of whether or not Jeff retired from the USG system means nothing. He was undervalued and unappreciated there in my opinion.
(And please remember it's just an opinion...surely someone else affiliated with Georgia will fire back with some snarky retort.)
I didn't get my degree at UGA, and I was plenty miserable. Someone is putting forth a lame, almost obscene, attempt to smear a program. If it's someone from outside of UGA, get a life. If it's a discontented student at UGA, get a clue.
Damn, all I said was "Fantastic for Jeff. One of the nicest guys in the biz"...and I meant it.
Yeah, I think the conversation has gotten a bit ragged to say the least.
If there are youngins on here, then know this, there are lots of reasons that people stay and people leave. It isn't always money, it isn't always people being unappreciated, sometimes it is the "system" at the school...and its not always valuing one perspective of PA or PS over another.
I suspect that the persons I know at Georgia were VERY unhappy to see him leave. Not only because he was a great scholar there, but also one of the warmest colleagues that any there had.
On a different note, I have a helpful tip that a colleague of mine and I were discussing last week. Grad Students: Get foodstamps, if eligible. You're eligible in most states. DON'T BE TOO PROUD. You will pay more than enough FICA over your career to pay it back many times over. My colleague and I decided that we may have actually had a decent living on our stipends if we had food stamps.
Whew, everybody chill with the backbiting. Every program has good and bad aspects. And everybody has complaints and opinions about their program and others. Talk about what you know (namely your program) and quit taking shots at other programs. You may end up having to take a job at the very program you criticize (wouldn't that be karma?). Speaking of talking about what you know, is any other program planning to hire this year other than Minnesota and Indiana? That would be USEFUL information.
I guess the crickets you are hearing regarding upcoming positions is a consequence of decimated budgets. UT-San Antonio's position is "pending budget approval." Anybody think prospects will change as the fall semester gets started? Man, I have the worst feeling this year is going to suck for jobs - way worse than last year.
I still think it's too soon to tell. Yes, it's not looking good. Then again, most job notices would not come out until early Fall at the earliest anyway. Some public universities are probably still working on budget and hiring approvals, so we'll see.
On "Who's hiring?", it's been my experience that hiring decisions for next year are made by the end of the current fiscal year, which has closed in most states. I don't see how you can go into the summer or fall without a budget - if you have a budget, you know if you're hiring.
Unless (1) it's a public university in a state that is usually late in passing a budget (such as Pennsylvania) or (2) it's a private university where department searches must be approved by the Provost's (or some other) office. I know in the case of one particular department - those approvals come during the summer/very early fall.
This year it will be interesting to see how many proposed searches are actually approved.
Also keep in mind that we are now talking about positions that are for NEXT year (2010-2011), not this year. So, I'm not surprised if there's still budgetary and approval processes to work out.
I think that if jobs notices don't start rolling out by October/November, then I will start to worry. Actually, I probably won't worry -- I'll just start to include non-academic jobs in my search.
There is a mismatch in these conversations. Whether state (public) or administrative (private) approval is required, most departments know by now whether they're hiring next year. But that doesn't mean you should see ads by now. In most cases, it's nonsensical to advertise when the majority of faculty are out of town or locked away doing research. You can't search if you can't convene a search committee.
So, in short, YES, most departments know whether they're going to/are likely to hire for 2010-2011. But NO, the absence of ads isn't anything to worry about.
3:41...where have you been? Brooks left Syracuse six months ago for the presidency of the American Enterprise Institute, therefore, he no longer holds the Bantle Chair...it's vacant, and from my parts, all I'm hearing is that Jeff is indeed heading to Syracuse.
Is anyone else unable to see the job description for the Iowa State position on publicservicecareers.org (APPAM)? I see the listing, but not the job description. I can find the position on other sites. Thanks.
Not to stir the pot from earlier conversations, but I've seen no open indication that Jeff Brudney is leaving Cleveland State for Syracuse. (Though, yes, Arthur Brooks did leave the Bantle Chair months ago.)
Meaning what? You don't believe the post? Or you're trying to out the source? Or do you want his job at CSU? They have now lost two key faculty, probably will post openings soon if they want to get in this year's market.
6:20...meaning nothing basically. Just saying that there's no indicator Brudney is out. I'm not looking to out anybody or get a job anywhere. Perfectly happy with where I am.
Children, children. Behave or you will be assigned to multiple committees as punishment. It's like high school with some people in here. Can you act like the enlightened adults you are supposed to be and focus on job prospects, not disputing rumors with conjecture. Unless, of course, one of you is Brudney. Then I guess you would know.
Seeking advice. Have a doctoral student who takes exactly 0 of my advice on job paper, job talk, cover letter, etc. Is it too harsh to remove myself as a reference for this student?
Sometimes a "reference" is just that -- meaning, not always a student's best advocate. The fairest thing would be to give the student the option: "remove me from your reference list, or take your chances since I plan to tell employers that you have lots of promise but still have a boatload to learn about taking advice." If he's in denial, that could help wake him up quick.
^^^^^ I sure hope you're not the student's chair/major prof. If not then maybe it's time you had a chat with the MP who should be the person these concerns are addressed to. If I had a student in a similar situation (which I have), I wouldn't pull my name as a reference just over these things. Objectivity and honesty are one thing, but removing your support entirely is a little harsh, don't you think? Do you feel the student could make some contribution to the field?
KU ad sent over PMRA listserv says KU is ranked 5th. Uh, no. Rather than conveniently overlooking the ties, and thereby misrepresenting the ranking, why not be honest? 7th is still very good.
^ I don't think that's how it's done for most rankings (of anything). If two things are tied for spot #3, isn't the ranking: 1,2,3,3,5? Otherwise, of the two "3"s, who is #3 and who is #4? So, we say they are both ranked 3.
More importantly, looks like there's few jobs in public policy out there.
What does anyone know about University of Illinois -- Springfield's Department of Public Administration? At least four of their faculty (out of 7) were hired within the past 3 years. This year they're hiring and they hired either last year or the year before.
The new hires are a sign that this is a growing program.
UI-S is a small program. It is part of the UI system, but in the state's view is the "third" institution in a state where there is only one UI-UC!
The UI-S PA program does not have a PhD program (offers the DPA). It has a small MPA program. Most of the students are tied to the state government.
It is definitely a "teaching" program and caters to practitioners. A place where faculty can have a strong influence on practice. If you apply, be sure to highlight your teaching and commitment to practice.
^^ Graduated 2 years ago from so-so school, but good pub. record (public management/admin); surprised for being shortlisted given their apparent preference for Ivy Leaguers (and therefore don't harbor much hope for moving any further than that, but that's ok).
You know, that is a shame but you are right. Many schools are very intrigued by Ivy Leaguers. However, I have realized that over time the Non-Ivies on average have better pub records and become better scholars. A school that shall remain nameless passed me up a few years ago for an Ivy Leaguer. Four years later said person has two pubs. Me, I am very happy in my institution well on my way to tenure having six pubs to date and great teaching evals, plus wonderful colleagues. My advice is don't give up and don't sell yourself short just because you did not graduate from an Ivy. Just be persistent, network, and of course publish as much as you can.
Yeah, all else equal Ivy Leaguers produce more and better papers - at the aggregate, esp if we compare cohorts. But, on a case by case basis I can come up with tens of similar examples of Ivies being outperformed by 'commonfolk'. The difference is that even the 'stupid' Ivies can eek a decent paper or two, while the 'less than adequate' part of the crop of the lesser institutions is not competitive on the job market anyway, so usually drops out completely. The rest are on par, if not better, precisely because they know they need to make up for the lack of name by publishing a lot. Considering the above two things, an ivy Leaguer could easily turn out to be a bad deal :D.
Remember UT-Austin has three openings. Which one/s are they scheduling interviews for. As far as I know the committee was going to meet on Monday to make a decision. The ads were not very specific, do you know what specialization they are looking for?
Well, *normative* work isn't necessarily qualitative if you really want to get nitpicky. Can you be any more specific? Ethnography? Case studies? What?
398 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 398 of 398You can't get hired on by your own department if they have no money to hire you...which is likely to be the case for a lot of universities this year.
"Surely" departments will hire recent graduates to teach one course a year? Does no one here understand the dire straights of the economy? Faculty lines and sections are disappearing everywhere. Adjuncts aren't being reappointed.
I don't want to be a doomsday-er, but I also don't want us giving students false hope.
On that token, students should understand that nothing that isn't in writing is guaranteed. If your current department says they'll hold on to you in some capacity, get it in writing (yes, even if you trust them). Otherwise, assume you'll have no job. Yes, it's that bad.
And don't be foolish enough to turn down the opportunity to get a decent TT job. You can always move when things rebound if it's not the place for you. There are many heartbreaking stories out there of people who didn't seize opportunities, only to end up in even worse places, earning less money, etc.
Is ANYTHING happening? or tight lipped? I heard IUPUI had visitors. Any form letters indicating the close of positions?
any update on WVU or U of Pittsburgh?
I don't think adjunct opportunities are disappearing. The market is terrible if you're looking for a permanent position. But, unless current Faculty are going to have increased teaching loads, programs will need to find a way to provide their courses. Adjuncts (and visiting professors) are much cheaper than hiring a permanent Faculty member.
University of Pittsburgh did on-campus interviews in January. I don't know the outcome. As of a few weeks ago (maybe a month or so), WVU had selected a short list of candidates. As far as I know, both schools are still planning to fill their positions.
Adjunct lines may not be disappearing at your institution, but in the aggregate they most certainly are. Sections, especially electives, are being cut and adjuncts are being reappointed only if they're willing to teach more sections.
I'm not sure if I would refer to an adjunct "line" when referring to adjunct positions. Most adjuncts teach one class and have full-time employment elsewhere. Unless student enrollment drops dramatically for some reason, adjuncts will become an even more important component of departments as they delay making permanent hires. I wouldn't be surprised if in April/May/maybe June there is suddenly a need for adjuncts for the coming Fall to fill the void that is being left by non-filled Faculty positions. Just a guess.
^ I agree. In addition there seem to be more "lecturer" positions coming out (see the SPEA 4-4 position). That way they have more active "adjuncts" to cover more courses without having to pay the extra costs for a TT position.
I took one of these last year and I didn't get insurance or the other goodies. But I had a place to call home and a decent paycheck for 2 days a week of work. (Granted it was not a 4-4 load--eugh!)
IUPUI did bring in a couple of people, but decided not to hire this year...which is why we are seeing the lecturer position a week after those interviews.
Why wouldn't IUPUI at least offer those they interviewed the lecturer job? The economy sucks. A job is a job.
Because they don't want to slyly sucker a tenure-track-worthy candidate into a horrible 2-year, research-required, high-teaching-load position. Better to advertise separately and at least be transparent about it.
Because it is a legal issue (Human Resource) and you are not allowed to do that mostly.
It's not a legal issue to say, "Hey, this is our situation, our previous line is now gone, but this has come up. Is this something you would be interested in?" Then go from there...it happens. I've seen it.
Beggars can't be choosers, people. If some candidates are having this hard of a time finding a tenure track position, then why not lecture for a couple of years and move to the next opportunity when it presents itself?
This absolutist BS gets frustrating. Expand your minds a little...
Being a lecturer with a high teaching load for 2 years is a death knell if you ever want a TT job. You'd be an absolute fool to do it.
Does anyone know what is happening at WVU? Someone said they had shortlisted...
Absolutism does not pay the bills. I have been looking for a TT job and it had not gone well. I am going to seek a management job in a non-profit or a think tank. In these dire economic times one should broaden their horizons and look for work outside of academia. At least you can use your skills to have a direct and long lasting effect on improving our communities. I have alot of respect for people who will hold out for a TT job but when you are facing making a meager amount of money being a lecturer a higher paying job outside of academia becomes very attractive.
Even before the economic crisis hit, an increasing percentage of doctoral students were opting not to pursue a career in academia. A recent article in the Chronicle of Higher Ed indicated that a declining percentage of graduating doctoral students think an academic position at a research university is worth pursuing. It was in interesting article.
I heard they invited candiates to their campus already. So I assume the offer will be soon out there if not already. Wish I was invited.
----
Does anyone know what is happening at WVU? Someone said they had shortlisted...
Multiple offers have been made by Colorado Denver.
I received the letter from Cleveland State University (notifying I didn't make it to their short-list).
Has anyone gotten a rejection from UC-Denver? Multiple sources say offers made but have they officially said no to anyone?
Any updates on Charleston, UMBC, or Pitt?
I know for a fact that Denver had at least 4 offers out. No idea how many, if any, were accepted.
Any update on University of Missouri - Kansas City & University of Memphis?
While we're on it--how about all the ones on the "positions open" list?
Why are there 12 universities listed as "position filled" but no entry for the name of the new hire? If the position is full, shouldn't a name be listed?
Reduces the usefulness of the wiki...
I think some of us who are filling in the filled area are doing so as a result of rejection letters that tell us the position was filled... which means we don't know who got the job. I don't really care who gets the job, unless that person is me.
I agree with 24/2/09 6:44 AM. I am more interested in the progress of the positions out there rather than 'who' got it, as it could help my "decisions & negotiations" I updated wiki when I got a rejection letter one time myself.
(Of course, it is good to know 'who' got the jobs.)
I hear Denver has made a bunch of offers but have had few or no takers.
Offer out at Charleston.
Looking for advice from experienced assistants and associates out there. Given the state of the economy, this is hypothetical right now. But assume:
1. I'm 4-5 years through my tenure track. Love my job, love my institution, but my salary has lagged.
2. I know I could go get an outside offer if I wanted one.
3. Do I:
-Tell my Dean I want more money, but I don't want to have to get an outside offer?
-Go get the outside offer?
^ Tell the Dean. I know of cases where that works.
If that doesn't get you enough, go get the outside offer. But beware the outside offer will probably need to be at a peer or better institution and you really must be willing to take it if your current institution calls your bluff (or you lose all bargaining power and will never get that raise). So apply selectively.
Sounds reasonable. Thanks! Will keep my eye out if anyone else wants to put in 2 cents.
To 25/2/09 11:24 AM
I am an assistant in a similar position. Like the place, like the colleagues, like the work, and am woefully underpaid.
I think asking the Dean is worth a shot. In my case, the dean and the director just give the same line of "we have no money". If I had a counter, they would find the money.
If you are comfortable with the bluff - you should go on the market. We had two associates go on the market in the last 3 years. One got a great offer and our department let him go. The other got an equally great offer and the department gave him the house to stay. In the 2nd case, numerous junior and senior faculty went to the Dean and said "please don't let him leave".
So be careful, the counter-offer is contingent on the department valuing you. And, possibly getting a few faculty to lobby to keep you.
Has anyone received anything from the Univ. of Pittsburgh?
For anyone who hasn't seen the latest analysis by the Rockefeller Institute, any public university hiring next year or the year after should be considered a bonus (even in departments that have lost multiple faculty). More than one position at a given school would be a miracle.
Echoing the comments of the previous post, I am going on the market next year and have been consequently following the current year's market news closely. I have serious concerns that next year's market will be very bad, obviously due to budgets that are unlikely to improve and probably get worse.
It would be helpful to those looking for a job next year to know generally what the hiring situation across the country will be. I can project with near certainty that my department will not be hiring at all, despite a need. In fact, even assistantships are in jeopardy. What is the projected budget and hiring situation in other departments? Next year's job applicants need to know, in order to decide if they should consider options other than TT to achieve gainful employment.
I'm also on the market next year and not quite looking forward to it. I hear professors say it might be worth staying another year in light of current economic trends...and do what? Apply for food stamps? Why delay my completion any more than it has to be?
Our department also has a need to fill some faculty spots, and I highly doubt they'll even start talking about it until FY 2010-2011.
I don't think we could use the old "look for a job at a private university" scheme either, considering many of their situations are also jeopardized. I'm in a decent department, but private schools do not hire our folks. Sad, but true.
^^In all seriousness, I think it would be more efficient if people said states that might actually be hiring. I honestly believe at this point that no hiring is the default. So, maybe people can fire off random states where decent public universities may be hiring.
State of Georgia most likely not hiring TT. Chancellor considering furloughs, even for professors. At best adjunct positions, if that. Projected 10% budget cuts for 2010 on top of 10% this year. Not good.
Count out Florida, South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arizona, and New Mexico. Even Texas is finally feeling the heat, but it's in comparatively great shape. If a department in Texas needs people, it'll probably hire.
There are still offers being made for the 09 school year...
That doesn't mean those concerned can't discuss next year.
Pittsburgh has filled their international position. Got a rejection letter yesterday.
Does anyone have information about UMASS - Boston?
No, but Amherst is laying off 60 non-tenured faculty, supposedly including some tenure-track ones. I would assume that means the entire system is in trouble.
Any word out of Portland State?
I received a letter from Portland State saying that either they filled the position or they selected finalists. I can't remember exactly what it said, but they did send out letters.
How will the current economic situation change universities in the long-run? With some schools laying off non-tenure track teaching staff, it looks like tenure track professors will eventually have to pick up the slack. That is fine with me. I'm just wondering what people think will happen in the long-run.
I have the belief that a number of people (obviously, not all and not the majority) in our profession spend too little time actually educating students. Will this have to change?
I think larger classes/fewer sections is the much more likely solution. In any good department, adjuncts only teach non-core electives--with relatively small classes at that--anyway.
Given modern-day tenure requirements at a research university, a 2-2 load is more than enough "educating" time. If tenure requirements weren't 99% research, 1% teaching, it would be a different story. As things stand now, the tenure system creates no incentive whatsoever to devote more than minimal attention to teaching. If they want more teaching, fine. But they'll have to adjust expectations for tenure by leaning more toward teaching.
When non-academics hear this, they always call us lazy. But then I ask if they'd want to do more of something at work that doesn't figure into their raises or promotions. The answer, invariably, is no.
Rejections going out from UMass-Boston.
Anyone have clue as to what is going on with the GA Tech position?
GaTech filled all five of their open positions.
WVU has hired for public management.
Anyone know who got the WVU public management post? Did they fill the other post they were offering?
WVU filled its research methods position, as well. I don't know who was offered the position.
Memphis has been filled. Very interested in knowing who was placed in the WVU public management line. Heard virtually nothing in the whole hiring process...
WVU hired Margaret Stout from Bridgewater State.
That connects me to the visiting faculty position at the Bridgewater! Did they decide already or anyone knows any progress? (Sorry to start discussing 'visiting' positions already here but this year's market gives me no choice :) )
Did UMASS - Boston make offers? Does anyone know who received the offers?
Anyone know what's going on at OSU? For that matter, anyone know why there's so much less information this year? I'm not one of the ones obsessed with names. Just want to know where I stand.
OSU only sent out their EEO forms last week... I got the tiny envelope thinking that it was closing the chapter on OSU, but alas they just wanted to know what I was
^^I'd like to know this as well. I have a feeling it is a function of the departments themselves not knowing their status. Several have cut lines (including where I adjunct). It seems there is conflicting information on a few also e.g. PDX, UC Denver, UTSA, etc.
Has everyone given up on the market? A couple of jobs have come out in recent weeks but the Wiki seems dead.
There must be fewer gabbers on the market this year.
SUNY-Brockport has sent out some rejection letters. From the sound of it they have shortlisted.
GA Tech sent out rejection letters.
At least one of the IU positions has been pulled without a hire.
What a dismal hiring year. Fewer open positions and - surprisingly -fewer people applying for jobs. I thought from the search committee POV that it would be a good year for my institution, but apparently nobody wants to move if they can't sell their house.
Kettl leaving Penn to be new Dean at University of Maryland School of Public Policy.
Marist is doing phone interviews for its AP position.
UNCW is doing or finished phone interviews.
UNC has decided to bring three individuals for on campus interviews. They received 121 applications and conducted 10 phone interviews.
Is that a typical number of applicants? What is typical?
It depends on the field, the desirability of the location, desirability of the job (teaching load, salary, etc.) and the prestige of the department/school. Public management searches always will garner more apps than other fields simply because there are more public management people than in any other field. Anywhere from 15 to 150 is typical in my experience.
110 seems a bit high given that UNCW is so low on prestige, but it is a bad economy and the market is saturated.
While we're on this topic, it is high time that people learn there are fields outside of public management. Why select into such a ridiculously crowded stable?
I think a lot of people choose that 'stable' because there are more jobs. I went outside it and found there were next to no jobs and even more competition (much from outside of PA)... and resigned myself to go back to PM.
I suggest looking even further from the 'stable' and consider non-academic careers. I was leaning this way even before the recent ecomonic crisis. I think this for two reasons. 1) it seems as though people are willing to give up any reasonable balance between work/family/personal life in pursuit of tenure. I'm not lazy, also I've managed to publish a few decent articles, but there is much more to life than tenure. More troubling is 2) some tenured faculty evaluating new faculty for tenure did not have to meet the same expectations that exist today in terms of publications. The profession seems obsessed with increasing expectations, which is fine, but it seems to be an expectation only for the new entrants to the field.
6:24, it's not so hard to achieve a "reasonable balance" between your personal and professional lives. But it does take some self discipline and ability to keep an eye on the eight ball. People make all kinds of choices in their lives about how they spend their time. It is possible -- even at a top school -- to forego a lot of B-list professional activities in exchange for enough high quality publishing and teaching to make tenure -- AND still get home in time for the kids' recitals and soccer practices. I know because I have.
"increasing expectations"
As a non-tenure track instructor who's trying to get a tenure track position, I felt that the above posting about increasing expectations (publications particulalry)was agreeable. Are we getting higher expectations for job candidates (for rookies and fresh PhDs)?
or maybe market saturation? or sunking economy's impact?
9:41, Thanks. It's nice to hear that a decent balance is achievable in academia. We don't hear enough of that and I feel some institutions discourage it (implicitly).
1:15, in my admittedly cynical opinion, it's probably a bit of hubris and a bit of market saturation. Tenure committee members (like many of us, including me) tend to think more highly of our past accomplishments than is likely warranted. This then gets carried over into expectations for junior faculty.. similar to the old phrase told to kids ... "when I was your age I used to walk up hill, with holes in my shoes, in a foot of snow to get to school." The market saturation allows these expectations to persist because a junior faculty person, if he/she doesn't meet them, can easily be replaced by a "newer" junior faculty person without much difficulty.
I'm not typically that cynical. It sounds more cynical in writing than when I was thinking it.
Iowa State is looking for a one year AP in PA
"there are more public management people than in any other field"
What vacuum are you living in?
9:41...so, the single case study is is a valid method after all, eh?
Can someone start up a board like poliscijobrumors.com? I think it would be great if we could extemporaneously discuss many different facets of being in policy. I would do it myself but have absolutely no technological skills. I just made it here after hearing about it for 3 years.
Re: expectations from junior faculty
Expectations are rising and that's fine. If you're actually productive, no senior professor could discount what you're doing with a straight face. The discrepancy in productivity is becoming just too big (except for the top 5-10 PA honchos who publish 5 papers in a bad year)
Also, having followed the job market for several years, it doesn't seem that there are that many apparently productive job market entrants (but plenty of smug applicants with *one* publication with their advisor.)
7:01, your dig at 9:41 suggests you don't believe that achieving a balance between work and personal life as a junior prof is possible without compromising publication quality. Since nobody gets tenure at a top school on case studies (not that there's anything wrong with them), I would assume that 9:41 knows what s/he is talking about.
5:49, I don't view 7:01's comment as a dig that much. In my department, you give all or nothing, even if it means sacrificing personal aspects of your life. That or you get the terminal contract...
Not entirely just, but it's the sad reality of where I am.
I still don't buy it (the 'all or nothing' argument). I'm at a top school, 2-2 schedule, and I made tenure here with my personal life intact. Surely there must be other people like me? That's why I argue that it's about your attitude toward your job, not their expectations of you. If you don't take control over your personal life, nobody will do it for you. Some people are victims, some are volunteers....
6:48 (25/5)is on the money! This has been a difficult year for many and that is leading to all kinds of questionable inferences... someone invoked case study of one to dispute contented successful top school academic -- I think some cynicism is helpful but lest we forget research design lessons, it is equally possible to invoke the case study of one argument for the person who raised the concern.
To paraphrase: Yes, Virginia there is happiness in academia. The caveat is that the happiness has little to do with the academic setting or how much or how little you accomplish... So, what does this mean for those who are pursuing PhDs now, find mentors who have work-life balance, are happy, and successful and see what you can learn about your personal case study of one from theirs.
Finally, it is your journey -- you are in-charge and you make it go where you want it go (whether or not you want to give yourself credit/blame for your successes and/or failures). Good luck!
Speaking of personal lives, what do you think about doctoral students who out pour their every emotion and gripe with the school in public venues - twitter, facebook, etc. Should we tell them to tone it down? I personally wouldn't take such behavior into consideration in the hiring process but I'll bet some search committee members would.
Why not let honest feelings prevail in social networking? Graduate school is rough and lonely, and some of these social networking sites provide an outlet otherwise unavailable to them. These "gripes" that students post should be used against what they could potentially contribute to the field. Nobody is perfect...
10:36's question is interesting in that it points out the potential hyprocrisy among academic types in terms of "academic freedom".
My own opinion is: 1. If I were a student I would publicly state my gripes. Too many schools take advantage of asymmetric information (less on the side of students) when they are choosing which school to attend. I've heard some faculty (and an associate dean) out-right lie to prospective students about a school's offerings.
2. As a new PhD at a new place of employment, I would not until I found a different place of employment.
I'm with 10:15. My department has been lying to me for four years...so glad to finally move on.
Predictions for the 09-10 job market? Anyone planning to hire?
Nope.
Is "nope" in reference to any predictions for next year or to is anyone hiring for next year?
I doubt if anyone really knows what it will be like next year. A few positions have already been advertised for Fall 2010. Three are at LBJ School of Public Affairs. Some schools will have to hire, they have positions that must be filled.
The LBJ hires will all go to Ivy League grads and the like...even the public management jobs...I'd put money on it.
I have a PA degree and I used to despise when Ivy League types were hired for PM positions. Then I read some real management literature and realized PM is management research in only the loosest sense.
^Based on what? Your perceptions alone? Of course there are going to be differences...traditional management doesn't give a crap about what the public sector researchers say, and conversely, everything that fits the norm of traditional (or as you put it "real") management will not conform to the public sector.
Exactly how much "real" management did you read in the first place?
Even the Ivy League folks know that the best PUBLIC management researchers do not come from their schools...
Any news on the UNC-Wilmington job?
Rejection email from Marist recieved today. Who's hired?
What's the story with the Leadership Studies position at Minnesota? Didn't they post it last year? What are they looking for in a candidate?
The Minnesota position was frozen and then unfrozen in April. They sent out an email to job applicants asking if they were still interesting/available. Apparently, they were not happy with their job pool since they reposted the position.
Is the Minnesota position rank open? It seemed from the first time I read the position announcement to be relatively demanding for a new AP.
I see Indiana is looking for an MPA director. Not sure, but is this wide open or an internal hire?
Indiana's MPA director position is open to outside candidates.
Minnesota position is for an assistant professor.
Indiana University-Bloomington is also hiring for two faculty positions in public and/or nonprofit management, one tenure track, one lecturer, subfields open. Interviews available at APSA, AOM, PMRA and ARNOVA.
Jeff Brudney is the new Bantle Chair at Maxwell School, Syracuse University.
Fantastic for Jeff. One of the nicest guys in the biz.
Thanks for the IU info!
Brudney is Maxwell's ultimate gain. Georgia was stupid to ever let him leave...he should have had a chair there. But no matter now. He's in the better place for what he does.
Well said. Georgia will get with the 21st century eventually, but only with a dean who is less parochial.
Yes, well said - by someone who obviously wasn't at Georgia. It's good that this blog isn't yet nearly as stupid as the poli sci blog, but statements like ^^ and ^ are plainly baseless, uninformed and ridiculous.
I agree with ^ but disagree on one front: I don't think ^^^ is misinformed. I think it's Brudney.
10:18 - don't be silly. They're baseless statements to you, but someone else's reality to them. Are you from Georgia?? I know discontented Georgia alumni AND faculty, so don't you think it's a bit ridiculous to assume this person has no grounds for that statement?
Discontented and overly chatty grad students are overhwhelmingly the whiners who can't hack it. Unfortunately, they have a disproportionately loud voice on this blog.
Brudney retired from UGA...allowing him to get a retirement payment from Georgia and a full paycheck from Cleveland. Who wouldn't want that deal? Hardly a reflection on UGA. Grow up people.
Wow, so I guess only grad students whine? Now you really are being ridiculous, and I hope I'm not your colleague because you're probably not much fun to work with.
Correction: any teacher who has spent 20 years in the Georgia university system is fully vested in a pension plan that the state provides. Brudney did his time and earned his pension.
it is too bad that the discussion is traveling down this negative route.
certainly we can all agree that student perspectives are very different from faculty perspectives. In all departments, students have little to no idea what is going on behind the closed doors at faculty meetings.
12:09 here. I can tell you without a doubt that I am not Jeff Brudney. I doubt he even knows this blog exists. I no longer have an affiliation with UGA, but I along with several other former faculty AND students can attest to the fact that things aren't very rosy there. Regardless of whether or not Jeff retired from the USG system means nothing. He was undervalued and unappreciated there in my opinion.
(And please remember it's just an opinion...surely someone else affiliated with Georgia will fire back with some snarky retort.)
^^^^^^ is definitely someone with ties to UGA.
I didn't get my degree at UGA, and I was plenty miserable. Someone is putting forth a lame, almost obscene, attempt to smear a program. If it's someone from outside of UGA, get a life. If it's a discontented student at UGA, get a clue.
Damn, all I said was "Fantastic for Jeff. One of the nicest guys in the biz"...and I meant it.
Yeah, I think the conversation has gotten a bit ragged to say the least.
If there are youngins on here, then know this, there are lots of reasons that people stay and people leave. It isn't always money, it isn't always people being unappreciated, sometimes it is the "system" at the school...and its not always valuing one perspective of PA or PS over another.
I suspect that the persons I know at Georgia were VERY unhappy to see him leave. Not only because he was a great scholar there, but also one of the warmest colleagues that any there had.
On a different note, I have a helpful tip that a colleague of mine and I were discussing last week. Grad Students: Get foodstamps, if eligible. You're eligible in most states. DON'T BE TOO PROUD. You will pay more than enough FICA over your career to pay it back many times over. My colleague and I decided that we may have actually had a decent living on our stipends if we had food stamps.
I didn't realize calling a dean "parochial" was equivalent to an obscene smear campaign. I'll have to watch my language when I REALLY get PO'd.
Whew, everybody chill with the backbiting. Every program has good and bad aspects. And everybody has complaints and opinions about their program and others. Talk about what you know (namely your program) and quit taking shots at other programs. You may end up having to take a job at the very program you criticize (wouldn't that be karma?). Speaking of talking about what you know, is any other program planning to hire this year other than Minnesota and Indiana? That would be USEFUL information.
Ditto. There's good and bad in every program. Enough with the UGA bashing.
Let's get back to the job talk. Any news?
Penn State - Harrisburg has a fixed term AP position advertised.
I guess the crickets you are hearing regarding upcoming positions is a consequence of decimated budgets. UT-San Antonio's position is "pending budget approval." Anybody think prospects will change as the fall semester gets started? Man, I have the worst feeling this year is going to suck for jobs - way worse than last year.
I still think it's too soon to tell. Yes, it's not looking good. Then again, most job notices would not come out until early Fall at the earliest anyway. Some public universities are probably still working on budget and hiring approvals, so we'll see.
According to the latest issue of Management Matters (PMRA), NYU Wagner is hiring 10-12 faculty over the next 3 years.
On "Who's hiring?", it's been my experience that hiring decisions for next year are made by the end of the current fiscal year, which has closed in most states. I don't see how you can go into the summer or fall without a budget - if you have a budget, you know if you're hiring.
Unless (1) it's a public university in a state that is usually late in passing a budget (such as Pennsylvania) or (2) it's a private university where department searches must be approved by the Provost's (or some other) office. I know in the case of one particular department - those approvals come during the summer/very early fall.
This year it will be interesting to see how many proposed searches are actually approved.
Also keep in mind that we are now talking about positions that are for NEXT year (2010-2011), not this year. So, I'm not surprised if there's still budgetary and approval processes to work out.
I think that if jobs notices don't start rolling out by October/November, then I will start to worry. Actually, I probably won't worry -- I'll just start to include non-academic jobs in my search.
There is a mismatch in these conversations. Whether state (public) or administrative (private) approval is required, most departments know by now whether they're hiring next year. But that doesn't mean you should see ads by now. In most cases, it's nonsensical to advertise when the majority of faculty are out of town or locked away doing research. You can't search if you can't convene a search committee.
So, in short, YES, most departments know whether they're going to/are likely to hire for 2010-2011. But NO, the absence of ads isn't anything to worry about.
At my public university in the Northeast, there will be one hiring this year, maybe two.
I saw a job for a 2010 start date at UCSB's Bren School, but now it seems to be gone. Did the line get pulled?
There's no public indication whatsoever that Brudney has taken the Bantle Chair at Maxwell. And Arthur Brooks holds that Chair. Is he leaving?
3:41...where have you been? Brooks left Syracuse six months ago for the presidency of the American Enterprise Institute, therefore, he no longer holds the Bantle Chair...it's vacant, and from my parts, all I'm hearing is that Jeff is indeed heading to Syracuse.
I guess I need to spend more time gossiping and CV stalking.
Or maybe just know Arthur and Jeff and quit being presumptuous...
Maybe time to archive this one and start a clean wiki and blog for 2010-2011?
Three new lines at American just opened...
I wonder what kind of salary and research support American has to offer. For a private school, it has a tiny endowment.
Iowa State has announced a PA position
Is anyone else unable to see the job description for the Iowa State position on publicservicecareers.org (APPAM)? I see the listing, but not the job description. I can find the position on other sites. Thanks.
Sorry. I should I said "can't find the position on other sites."
From what I hear, salary and research support at American are excellent at the junior level... Not so much at the senior level.
Not to stir the pot from earlier conversations, but I've seen no open indication that Jeff Brudney is leaving Cleveland State for Syracuse. (Though, yes, Arthur Brooks did leave the Bantle Chair months ago.)
Meaning what? You don't believe the post? Or you're trying to out the source? Or do you want his job at CSU? They have now lost two key faculty, probably will post openings soon if they want to get in this year's market.
Cleveland ROCKS!
6:20...meaning nothing basically. Just saying that there's no indicator Brudney is out. I'm not looking to out anybody or get a job anywhere. Perfectly happy with where I am.
What's with your suspicion-loaded inquiry?
Children, children. Behave or you will be assigned to multiple committees as punishment. It's like high school with some people in here. Can you act like the enlightened adults you are supposed to be and focus on job prospects, not disputing rumors with conjecture. Unless, of course, one of you is Brudney. Then I guess you would know.
2:02, that was somewhat uncalled for. Pot calling the kettle black. Grow up.
^ I was totally joking here, by the way. Perhaps in poor taste, but nevertheless, not to be taken seriously.
When do schools typically start to post job searches in public policy/public administration?
new wiki
http://bluwiki.com/go/Publicpolicy0910
the new wiki mentions 2 positions at South Carolina... anyone see the annoucement for those jobs?
^ The South Carolina positions are posted on the department's website: http://www.cas.sc.edu/poli/recruitment/index2.htm
Seeking advice. Have a doctoral student who takes exactly 0 of my advice on job paper, job talk, cover letter, etc. Is it too harsh to remove myself as a reference for this student?
Sometimes a "reference" is just that -- meaning, not always a student's best advocate. The fairest thing would be to give the student the option: "remove me from your reference list, or take your chances since I plan to tell employers that you have lots of promise but still have a boatload to learn about taking advice." If he's in denial, that could help wake him up quick.
The Brudney to Maxwell rumor is bunk.
^^You're good. Thanks for the advice.
And what makes you so sure of that, 1:56??
^^^^^ I sure hope you're not the student's chair/major prof. If not then maybe it's time you had a chat with the MP who should be the person these concerns are addressed to. If I had a student in a similar situation (which I have), I wouldn't pull my name as a reference just over these things. Objectivity and honesty are one thing, but removing your support entirely is a little harsh, don't you think? Do you feel the student could make some contribution to the field?
KU ad sent over PMRA listserv says KU is ranked 5th. Uh, no. Rather than conveniently overlooking the ties, and thereby misrepresenting the ranking, why not be honest? 7th is still very good.
^ I don't think that's how it's done for most rankings (of anything). If two things are tied for spot #3, isn't the ranking: 1,2,3,3,5? Otherwise, of the two "3"s, who is #3 and who is #4? So, we say they are both ranked 3.
More importantly, looks like there's few jobs in public policy out there.
^ In that example, it's irrelevant who's #3 and who's #4. What's clear is that the next school down the list is *not* #4.
Well, for what it's worth, KU is #1 in City Management.
Otherwise, can we just be complacent and call it a top ten school?
We can do better...we can agree it's #7.
What does anyone know about University of Illinois -- Springfield's Department of Public Administration? At least four of their faculty (out of 7) were hired within the past 3 years. This year they're hiring and they hired either last year or the year before.
The new hires are a sign that this is a growing program.
UI-S is a small program. It is part of the UI system, but in the state's view is the "third" institution in a state where there is only one UI-UC!
The UI-S PA program does not have a PhD program (offers the DPA). It has a small MPA program. Most of the students are tied to the state government.
It is definitely a "teaching" program and caters to practitioners. A place where faculty can have a strong influence on practice. If you apply, be sure to highlight your teaching and commitment to practice.
^ Thank you. That was helpful.
Eureka! In a slow job year, finally the perfect opportunity has arisen:http://www.publicservicecareers.org/?pageid=616&site_id=631&jb=5897484
UT Austin short list notifications are out.
Any idea how many apps UT-Austin received and how many are on the shortlist?
Thanks!
Just that a short list exists.
I don't know anything about the UT Austin short list other than that I'm on it. Uh-oh!
Congratulations! What is your area of specialization and are you ABD or Ph.D.?
^^
Graduated 2 years ago from so-so school, but good pub. record (public management/admin); surprised for being shortlisted given their apparent preference for Ivy Leaguers (and therefore don't harbor much hope for moving any further than that, but that's ok).
Well, heck, I wouldn't give up so easily. They are looking for three new faculty.
You know, that is a shame but you are right. Many schools are very intrigued by Ivy Leaguers. However, I have realized that over time the Non-Ivies on average have better pub records and become better scholars. A school that shall remain nameless passed me up a few years ago for an Ivy Leaguer. Four years later said person has two pubs. Me, I am very happy in my institution well on my way to tenure having six pubs to date and great teaching evals, plus wonderful colleagues. My advice is don't give up and don't sell yourself short just because you did not graduate from an Ivy. Just be persistent, network, and of course publish as much as you can.
Yeah, all else equal Ivy Leaguers produce more and better papers - at the aggregate, esp if we compare cohorts. But, on a case by case basis I can come up with tens of similar examples of Ivies being outperformed by 'commonfolk'. The difference is that even the 'stupid' Ivies can eek a decent paper or two, while the 'less than adequate' part of the crop of the lesser institutions is not competitive on the job market anyway, so usually drops out completely. The rest are on par, if not better, precisely because they know they need to make up for the lack of name by publishing a lot. Considering the above two things, an ivy Leaguer could easily turn out to be a bad deal :D.
UT-Austin is in process of scheduling the campus interviews (some people on the shortlist have been contacted already).
Remember UT-Austin has three openings. Which one/s are they scheduling interviews for. As far as I know the committee was going to meet on Monday to make a decision. The ads were not very specific, do you know what specialization they are looking for?
Whazap?
"Qualitative" research isn't research at all if there are no qualitative DATA. Discuss.
Wha??? Any research without data ain't real research. I would think we'd figure that out by the time we hit the job market!
Interviews aren't data? Get real, number cruncher.
Interviews *are* data. I'm talking about "qualitative" work where there are no data at all. Basically essays. Not research.
Well, *normative* work isn't necessarily qualitative if you really want to get nitpicky. Can you be any more specific? Ethnography? Case studies? What?
what don't we move this discussion over to the new year's comments...
Some people in here are just ASKING for a fight...
Telephone interviews being scheduled for IU public/nonprofit management position.
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