The Public Policy/Administration Jobs Blog provides a forum for job-seekers seeking jobs in public affairs, public policy, and public management programs.
I strongly disagree with 8:26's assessment. It might look bad if one or two decent publications don't come out of a post-doc, but the thought that all post-docs are for people who aren't offered a faculty position is not accurate. I would take a post-doc at certain institutions over a faculty position at others.
Outside of the extreme comparisions (e.g. cal state v. harvard), a post doc in our field is a complete waste of time, amounting to little more than a glorified research assistantship. Only very low ranking programs get impressed by the name of the university, if it happens that the postdoc is in a prestigious one.
When hiring, I would be much more interested in a person who started and performed in a bad tt job looking to move up, than in a most likely a primadona who didn't come up with anything better than a postdoc.
Given a choice between an AP position and a post-doc, I would make my decision based on which program I liked the best, in terms of their strengths and location.
There are some post-docs that, if offered, I would have taken over certain AP positions because of their focus area. On the other hand, if the AP position was in a program that appealed to me, I would take that.
I started in an informal post-doc because I had young children and my husband was still finishing his graduate degree (I didn't want the tenure-track pressures). I was able to get new research underway, some work published, and some grant proposals out. I started my first AP job with two grants and pubs in the pipeline. I got tenure at a R1 university in three years, so in effect, I lost no time with the postdoc. For me, it couldn't have worked out better.
Minnowbrook III is divided into two parts: Phase I, by invite only, for younger scholars who will discuss the state of the field at the Minnowbrook Conference Center in the Adirondacks September 3-5.
Phase II is the open conference on the state of the field (proposals were due 4/7), to be held at Lake Placid September 5-7.
The whole thing was originally scheduled to take place at Syracuse University September 26-30, but it was moved due to overlap with Rosh Hashana.
"And...you're either invited or you aren't. You don't expect the 50 people invited to reveal names, do you?"
Then why broadcast it on the blog? Just seems like Maxwell is trying to save face by promoting some elitist conference that most PA scholars won't even care about because they were excluded. I thought PMRA was tough...guess I'd better start preparing for Minnowbrook IV in 2028.
While I understand some level of frustration over the selectivity of PMRA and Minnowbrook, those of us who killed ourselves to make it through the toughest programs and publish in top journals have earned our way into these events.
The bottom line is that there is no secret here. If you want to attend selective conferences in PA, study public management, public finance, or public policy at Maxwell, Indiana, Georgia, Kansas, TAMU, Suny Albany, USC, etc.
This is a winning formula that everyone knows and no one has a right to complain about.
Seriously, who cares that much about all this Minnowbrook stuff? It's a conference, you go or you don't...and my disdain for the person writing in defense of Minnowbrook is just about equal to the person bashing it. Get over yourselves, both of you, and keep this blog to job rumors.
Long Island University--Brooklyn Campus has invited candidates to interview for its Visiting Assistant Professor position. The position is for the 2008-2009 school year. Link to posting: http://www.publicservicecareers.org/?pageid=616&site_id=631
Anyone know any schools in the New York City area (Except LIU--Brooklyn) that will be searching for Public Management faculty for the 09-10 academic year?
As someone going onto the job market this fall I am curious what the world out there is looking like. Anyone have thoughts? Are we still looking as good as we have in the last couple of years or are things going to get a bit stickier with budgets being a bit tighter?
It's hard to say. Some departments will inevitably have funding that they must use or lose, and who knows how that will affect the hiring. I am fairly confident that the market will be just as ripe as the past few years...there were still many from this year's job cycle that went unfilled.
As an area, non-profit is looking almost as good as finance/budgeting. Across programs, the non-profit specialization has taken off like no other. Eventually, faculty will be hired to meet this demand.
Gazing into my crystal ball ... in the 08-09 market the following will happen:
- several ABDs from the "top" programs will be hired by January 1, leading to grousing about elite schools.
- Three or four candidates will get interviews at all of the first round schools, leading to more grousing about what they have that someone else doesn't.
So here's some news: PA Times has UT San Antonio advertising an open faculty position - presumably to replace Hager. Rumor also has it that NC State is looking for an associate/full for MPA program director.
The Department of Politics is seeking to appoint a Lecturer in Climate Change and Sustainability at either its Exeter or Cornwall campus, as part of the University's new cross-disciplinary "Climate Change and Sustainable Futures (CCSF)" initiative.
We seek applications from individuals whose research addresses political issues connected to climate change and sustainability such as, but not limited to, public understanding of science, regulation, global environmental governance, political economy and/or public policy. We invite applications from individuals with an excellent track-record or outstanding promise in research and obtaining grants, commensurate with the level of appointment, to join one of the largest and most diverse Politics departments in the UK.
We especially encourage applications from candidates who are interested in contributing actively to the CCSF theme by engaging with colleagues from across the university. An ability to contribute to research methods training is desirable but not necessary.
Informal enquires to Dr Susan Banducci, Head of Politics: Tel 00 44 (0)1392 263170; email s.a.banducci@exeter.ac.uk . Application packs are available from http://www.admin.ex.ac.uk/personnel/jobs/app_eo_form.rtf
Email j.slaven@exeter.ac.uk quoting reference number S49N1761.
The starting salary will be in the range £30,763 - £34,624.
The closing date for applications is 12 noon 8th August 2008.
"Anyone know any schools in the New York City area (Except LIU--Brooklyn) that will be searching for Public Management faculty for the 09-10 academic year?"
At least five faculty are leaving Rutgers at Newark.
3:49 That's fine, but irrelevant here. We must be careful not to spiral into the abyss of petty, non-market-related gossip - i.e., the political science blog.
Amen... but with that said, does anyone know anything that is happening on the market THIS year? This board has been so so quite, and so so uninformative, for so so long.
True, the pool isn't great in an objective sense, but it's tremendous for this time of year. Usually there aren't half this many jobs until mid-October.
If any here are members of the APSA, I would invite you to consider joining the boycott of the 2012 meetings in New Orleans.
As a reminder, the issue revolves around APSA policy about not holding meetings in places where discrimination may be harmful to our colleagues. In this case, Louisiana passed one of the most restrictive constitutional amendments that not only banned same sex marriage, but also all incidents of marriage as well (which would include benefits, same sex unions, and that could legally extend to adoption, visitation in hospitals ect.
To learn more about the boycott, please go to http://www.danpinello.com to see the statement, the list of over 300signers, and an email of where you can add your name to the list.
Even though this is suppose to be a job market blog, I sympathize with 3:08's point of view. With that said, don’t you think instead of boycotting the conference that it would be more productive to attend the conference and have an open and constructive dialog on the state's policy toward LGBT rights. Maybe that will shed some light on the discriminatory policies and its effect on the LGBT community. After all we are academics and we discuss and debate issues for a living. Boycotting the conference en masse will hurt a city that has already endured enough pain and suffering. Attending the conference and discussing the issue head will help the city while bringing attention to an important issue.
As the person who posted the snippet about the boycott, I wanted to respond to the above poster's really nice response.
I appreciate the point of view that you hold, however, I have thought about it long and hard and came to the opposite conclusion.
First, let me address your concerns. No one in the boycott wishes to harm the people of New Orleans who are suffering, but to argue that our conference that was planned years ago and was seven years away at the time is the best way to help New Orleans is beside the point. We should help now. Many of us have pledge to donate now to a number of charities that get money directly to the 9th Ward. Unlike what a multiplier effect would bring to multinational corporations.
Second, on the hearts and minds issue. No conference that I have ever been to has ever stirred much attention beyond its walls. Attending and talking primarily to ourselves sends very little message. Even a well staged protest would not.
My conclusion to support is based on the many friends and relatives that have been hurt by these laws. Most were fashioned in states where it was already illegal and where the amendments were intended to raise right wing voter turnout. Very sad, in my opinion.
Last, I hope this is persuasive, but I live in a state where an amendment came up and was thwarted. The reason was that the business community determined that it was not only wrong but was harmful to the economics of the state.
To me, this boycott has already raised awareness inside the profession and has gotten attention outside academce. More than attending and speakign would. The big thing I care about now is that future states, and Lousiana, take the consequences of what they delivered when they decided to discrinate. Discrimination has economic consequences, let them feel them.
What does the market look like this year in terms of candidates? Last year I saw a pretty strong group of candidates just wondering if the trend will continue this year.
How is the non-academic job market? I never see any discussion of these type of jobs. I have been weighing whether to take an academic job or go work for a think tank or government (federal or state). A lot of the jobs I have seen pay pretty well and seem to have a more direct policy impact than being in academia. Plus you can teach on the side and make some extra cash. Any thoughts?
How is the non-academic job market? I never see any discussion of these type of jobs. I have been weighing whether to take an academic job or go work for a think tank or government (federal or state). A lot of the jobs I have seen pay pretty well and seem to have a more direct policy impact than being in academia. Plus you can teach on the side and make some extra cash. Any thoughts?
Non-academic is a wonderful idea but just remember it can be difficult to get back into academia later. That being said I think academia is a bit over-rated in our field...low pay, heavy teaching load (many cases), and the publish or perish mentality. Personally, I am going the non-academic route...fewer positions but I am willing to take the risk..
This will irk many of the defensive bloggers on here, but the reality is this: All of those downsides to academia--low pay, high teaching load, etc.--do not apply to those who sacrifice the time and personal comfort to attend a top program.
I don't know a single person who's graduated from a top program and feels he or she teaches too much or could make significantly more money in a think tank.
And besides, *fewer* positions in practice? In a good year, there are 20 or so academic positions. Meanwhile, there are thousands of think tanks, not to mention the 50 states and 90,000 local governments.
Where does that leave those of us who were not fortunate enough to go to a "good school"? I think that people on this board are too caught up with rankings and good schools (btw I come from a "top 5" school so this is not sour grapes). I am sure we will all agree that there are many great students who come from decent but not top programs each year who are overlooked and have to work twice as hard to get a decent job. That is sad and explains the state of the PA field today. Focus less on rankings and more on individuals.
Hiring committees work on such imperfect information that it becomes impossible not to use information about the PhD institution as a means of sorting through the candidates. Having said that, I think that people look a lot more at the people on the candidate's committee and the letter writers than the name on the diploma. A candidate with a very strong letter from a very good scholar at a place ranked 5-50 would probably do better than a candidate with lukewarm letters from the B-team at Syracuse. It just happens that productivity and ranking are highly correlated.
I am the person who posted regarding the non-academic job market (15/8/08 3:20 PM). There seems to be an obsession on this blog with rankings. I am so fed up with this mindset. I have deal with this on a regular basis at my program (Top 10 program). That is why I am seriously considering leaving academia. Aside from the low pay and teaching load, the fact that I do not get to practice (in the real world not in an ivory tower) skill that I am teaching really bothers me. It make no sense to me that we are so caught up with ratings and labels but we rarely focus on people who have had the experience a practitioner as being a good academic. The saying “those who can’t do teach” seems to fit many of those who choose focus on ranking rather than substance and practice.
Ouch. Someone is grumpy. But seriously, in the "real" world people focus on rankings all over the place. Largest this, biggest that, faster whatever. Lawyers and medial doctors, to professions coming to mind right now, are rarely accused of not being in the real world, but the definitely DO care about rankings too. We've got a billboard in our downtown touting #1 hospital something or another. So any illusion that academia is different, just isn't the case. Seems to me that some of us want to be academics and others do not. That is fine, it is not for everyone, but let's bring things into perspective here.
Maybe I came off a little grumpy and I do understand that academia is not for everyone, but my original point was that we rarely discuss non-academic jobs on this blog. It seems a little unbalanced to me. And of cause ratings are ubiquitous in the professional world, I am just a little tired of those who focus so much on ranking and labels, and not on how we can improve government and public policy.
To the disgruntled poster, we get it--academia can't please you. Rather than looking for support of your arguments here, which you won't find (it's a blog by and for academics), resolve within yourself what it is that you want. Those who responded to you were honest and insightful, and what they said changes nothing for you, nothing will. 17/8/08 7:44 PM took extra care to move the discussion beyond raw rankings.
Unfortunately, you have a fixed conclusion (a false conclusion, in my opinion)-- that academia doesn't pay well and the teaching load is high--and you want someone to provide you with supporting arguments. I could be wrong, but it's highly unlikely that this will happen here.
On the low pay issue, compensation is what you make of it and is only part of what you get from a job. I have 0 bosses, 1 house, 2 cars, 3 kids, 4 pets, and almost infinite sick and vacation days. Not to mention creative freedom.
I'm not convinced that the pay differential is that significant. You can't compare the 9-month pay of an academic to the annual pay of a consultant/researcher/manager/policy wonk. Academics can earn substantial income doing consulting, teaching in the summer, applied research, and grants. If you compare 12-month work to 12-month work, then I really don't think you'll see a whole lot of difference - *holding constant the "quality" of the job*. Don't compare a 4-4 load at Mom and Pop's MPA Program to partner-track consultant at IBM.
A friend of mine at the University of North Texas's Department of Public Administration has asked me to recommend someone who is willing to work for a one year visiting position. The load is 3-2 for 55K a year. This person would teach program eval and some basic PA courses. UNT is located in a northern part of the Dallas-Fortworth Metroplex. Its PA program has been ranked in Top 10 in the City Management & Urban Policy area. Please let the person contact Bob Bland bbland@unt.edu or Abraham Benavides benavides@unt.edu .
Does it make sense to pay attention to jobs that are posted on the APSA website anymore? Some of the older faculty have recommended that I join to see their job boards, but others aren't sure it's worth the $40 to join if that is the only reason.
I don't get the "I'm so cool because I declined a conference" mentality. Attending a conference does not mean attendees had nothing better to do. That's a logical fallacy. Even still, what the hell is so cool about being too busy with other things to attend a conference?
I don't have a dog in the fight, but I think the logical fallacy is in jumping from somebody not attending a conference to them being "too cool" because they "declined" the conference. Aren't we imputing some attitude here that may not exist?
I am surprised and disappointed at the lack of collegiality reflected in these comments about Minnowbrook. So you (a) didn't want to go (b) didn't get invited or (c) wouldn't go if you were invited. Good for you. Now get over yourself and stop passing judgement on those who behave differently than you do.
There are plenty of young scholars in PA and Policy who will attend because they hope to find the exchange of ideas intellectually useful. They might even generate some ideas that benefit the field.
I did not get invited to Minnowbrook, but I want to know why there is so much disdain for it on this blog. I am not going to criticize anyone but I want to know where all this ill-will comes from. From the outside looking in it looks like this conference will help young scholars make our discipline relevant again, which has been lacking for the last couple of years (or even decades).
Change of topic, somewhat job market related: Is anyone else concerned that, except for in a few programs, Ph.D.s in public affairs and/or administration are given out like Pez? Doesn't admitting and graduating unqualified candidates cheapen our field and the idea of an interdisciplinary Ph.D. altogether?
1) I think the list of scholars participating in Minnowbrook's first phase is diverse and eclectic, and I hope they produce something worthwhile while they're there. I was not invited, but rather than lament that by saying something asinine like, "I have more pubs than so-and-so and HE was invited?" I wish them nothing but a good experience. I still have work to do regardless. Minnowbrook won't make or break my career.
2) I see the concern about some programs dolling out doctorates like no tomorrow, but not in terms of the job market necessarily. The good programs (and more importantly, job candidates) have distinguished themselves to somewhat separate the wheat from the chaff. There are certain unnamed programs that might graduate ten people, but produce one academic job candidate. I see no need to worry at this point, however, I think better screening of potential students is definitely in order.
I'm glad someone brought this up. It's true the most deserving candidates always will be competitive, but we still look dumb with so many PhDs out there. Not quite at crisis stage (i.e. EdD) but headed there. We're supposed to be a mix of political science, management, economics, history, and philosophy. Yet it is harder to earn a PhD in the worst department in any of these disciplines than in many public affairs programs. It's time to get serious.
Maybe my idea of the PA PhD is clouded because I'm in a program right now (a very good one I might add), but there is nothing easy about. There is no doctoral "Pez" dispenser. The only thing given out for free is well nothing. It is all the result of hard work, long nights, and numerous headaches. Maybe because I'm living in a academic world that is rigorous and challenging that I don't see that free pass you all talk about, but to me it seems like there are far too many cynics. The ABDs of my world are future scholars, hard workers, and are not looking for a free handout. No, we want to be part of a competent, challenging discipline, not one filled with a bunch of whiners and cynics. I'm realistic, I know I'll may end up at a department with a Minnowbrook hater or two; a PhD degree as Pez believer or two... but I pray my generation of scholars isn't so negative on its own field. Yes I want us to challenge the norms, the theories, the ideas, but I'm not seeing it here. That is probably because of the type of forum this is...anonymous.
If Ph.D.'s in PA are given out like Pez, then why is there still a serious shortage of Professors of PA in academia? With the retiring wave of the baby boomers happening very soon, this shortage will only increase. Please, someone actually look at data instead of perceptions. There is not a glut of Ph.Ds in PA and they are not handed out like Pez.
On the PA PhD supply/demand issue, from my perspective, the PA faculty and administrators making the PhD admissions decisions seem to have a pretty good handle on the size of the market. I cannot speak for Policy, but I can tell you that my (high ranked) school competes hard for new scholars. So I wouldn't agree that there's a "glut" of PhD candidates or that we are over-subscribing. I think most of us in the field would argue that supply is not meeting demand.
Contrast that to my spouse's academic experience in the humanities. Despite an Ivy degree, he struggled to find a first job, finally beating out 200 other candidates for a second tier TT job. We would scream and whine if we had that kind of experience in PA/PP! The difference? In his case, admissions faculty were convinced that there would be all kinds of attrition among the senior ranks, creating all kinds of new openings for their doctoral students. So they over-admitted students, and then couldn't place them.
Maybe this is reason #237 why it's good to have economists in OUR field! (Don't jump on me, that was tongue in cheek).
I believe the original poster was focusing more on the ease of getting the degree in many departments--not the raw number. Anyone who's ever been on a hiring committee knows that there are some sad programs out there: some require no comps, some have never failed a comps taker, others will sign virtually any dissertation (which always shows in the candidate seminar), etc.
The worst of the bunch are the online doctorates, and they are definitely not few. Just look on ProQuest and see how many Ph.D.'s have been doled out by Walden and Capella.
Obviously those who attend quality programs aren't taxed by those who don't. Saturating the world with pseudo-Ph.D.'s eventually will, however, cheapen at least its perceived value.
From the Chronicle: PA job openings at Southern Illinois University at Edwardsville (Budgeting, Quant), University of South Dakota, Appalachian State University, Troy University, University of Wisconsin Green Bay, Augustana College (Policy).
I wholeheartedly agree with 5:48. I would also like to add another point. Have any of us considered that alot of PhD in PA and associated fields do not go into academia but rather work for think tanks, government, and the non-profit sector. It may be a question of making academia more attractive so the best people do not go off the academic trail.
Not to beat a dead horse or anything, but does anyone have any information pertaining to this blog??? Such as job rumors, or we just going to continue to harp on degree mills and Minnowbrook?
I don't think there's a whole lot of information about jobs right now... I am guessing most of them are posted by this point if they are going to be, with the exception of a couple I've heard about.
With all the problems that KY has had getting people in the last couple of years...can we assume there is a reason people have been going elsewhere? Meaning, is U of K a bad place?
Unless you're geographically restricted, any junior applicant should apply to Kentucky. Sure, they had some trouble last year, but the salaries are not bad at all and it's a very well-regarded department.
Yeah - just because 2/3 of the participants were over 35 doesn't mean that the earlier poster could not have seen the largest number of <35 windbags in her life at the conference.
I went to Minnowbrook, and your lack of basic logic skills tells me that you were probably there, too.
The intensity with which anonymous strangers try to one-up anonymous strangers really says a lot about the size of egos in the academia. That said, the "look at me" crowd deserves all the disdain it gets (as in the perfectly reasonable response above) and more. Shmoozing gets you only this far. Some years down the road it always becomes apparent who is full of it (or not), regardless of who they hang out with.
There was talk earlier that those at Minnowbrook actually have some info (or rumors) on JOBS (the actual point of this blog)... so why don't we all try and stop the one upsmanship and spill the beans already.
I couldn't care less who has the biggest ego...I just need a job.
Moving beyond the dejected and the inflated, there are rumors of at least 12-15 jobs that will be posted. No one knows how widely spread these rumors are, though, so they're naturally reticent to share.
Oh yeah, well I went to Minnowbrook and I've never seen such a collection of self-important windbags between the ages of 45 and 49 and between the ages of 78 and 84 but not 81.
Moving past the Minnowborook antipathy, what's the deal with this comment:
"there are rumors of at least 12-15 jobs that will be posted."
Does this person or anyone else have a clue as to what schools are going to be hiring? Considering the the annocments so far, its a pretty sad season. This is a job blog I am sick of coming on to here and reading cryptic postings about the market. If you know job is coming on-line say where they are or just don't post!!!!!!!
I have a something of substance. Rutgers--Newark is hiring for numerous postions for the next academic year. The flieds are going to be Finance and Methods and may be other fields dendpending on the pool.
Come on people the economy is pertty rough nowadays. Could we just try to help each other instaead of launcing dim-witted acttacks about a conference that is not going to affect whether or not we are going to get jobs.
First, saying more jobs will be posted *is* a rumor. Second, more rumors does not equate with more jobs or more offers. Your frustration cannot be mollified with more and better rumors.
I'd honsetly like to believe the Minnowbrook 15 jobs rumor, but I cannot, because it makes no sense: why would anybody discuss 15 jobs at a restricted conference where all participants by definition have a job? So don't put too much hope into this, some whiz kid with bad publication record is messing with you.
That argument is akin to: Why would a bunch of economists at AEA (more exclusive than Minnowbrook Phase II) discuss multiple job opportunities? Why on earth would we want to discuss potential recruits and changes in our departments?
I am really disappointed in the Minnowbrook-III antipathy. The people there were interested in making their FIELD better -- something from which we all benefit. What a bunch of sour grape-heads. I am a regular contributor of job info to this blog, and I COULD tell you about some of those jobs discussed at M-3but right now I'm not in the mood. You're on your own.
I think that M antipathy here is not really a function of sour grapes, but a function of the immature behavior of 1-2 apparently very insecure boys/girls who somehow slid through the cracks and were able to attend and then came here to tell us everything about it. (I might even know some of them and if so that's precisely the case.) Other than that, I see no problem with exclusive conferences, except that the selection process obviously needs to me more rigorous.
The “Fiscal Futures Project” is an undertaking of the Institute of Government and Public Affairs (IGPA) of the University of Illinois, with the support of a number of civic organizations. The Resource and Policy Analyst will develop a fiscal forecasting model for the state government of Illinois that can be used for long term fiscal planning and will construct modules for key revenue sources and expenditure categories, link each to relevant demographic or economic variables, and combine them in a unified model. Candidates must possess a Master’s degree in public policy, public administration, economics, accounting, business, or related field is required; Ph.D preferred.
It is anticipated that this will be a full time position for the duration of the project but is dependent upon external funding. To assure full consideration, a letter of interest and a current resume including name, address and phone number of three professional references, should be submitted by October 10, 2008; email submissions preferred. **Applicants not providing all required materials will not be considered.
Patricia McKenzie University of Illinois Employee Relations and Human Resources 271 Henry Administration Building, MC 341 506 South Wright Street Urbana, IL 61801 (217) 333-2600 fax: (217) 239-6738 email: VPAAjobs@uillinois.edu The
Rutgers-Newark should be posting for a number of open positions (4-5) in the next few weeks. They are looking for people in budgeting, public management, and urban entrepreneurship. The ranks of the positions are going to be open.
Well at least he doesn't have to pretend to do positivist research anymore. So academia will survive w/o AB Inc. Let's get back to the job openings now.
Could we start a discussion on salaries in PA/PP? As a Associate who is looking, how much compression has taken place over the last few years? Other disciplines (especially the B-schools) share salary data about new hires. An informed market can only help.
State salary databases are really easy to find these days. There are so few private schools with brand name PA/Policy programs that you really don't need anything else.
Some state databases are accessible, some are not listed by line-item. I'd also just like to see other important factors like course load and release time (as a new hire and for administrative duties).
Any place worth working at will be willing to negotiate at least one course release (2-1 load) for the first year if not for three or even five years. Likewise, any place worth working at won't ask junior faculty to take on administrative duties. If you're a program that doesn't play ball, will you get a candidate? Sure, probably. Will you get the best? No.
I'm an associate in a department where the old guard reigns. They refuse to acknowledge the new market and we're getting pummeled as a result.
Because state legislatures can be wary of course reductions, we've increased RA hours and travel money for pre-tenure faculty and worked it out so that pre-tenure faculty have fixed teaching schedules. It's a hit.
Would it be career suicide to go after a job at a Canadian university if, as an American, you want to return to the US academic work some day? As someone newer to this work, I don't know how they compare. I know there are some very good scholars at Canadian universities, but they tend to be Canadian.
Hell, with the dollar tanking, you're better off in Canada.
I don't have a lot of experience in this, but two things come to mind that could help turn your Canadian gig into an asset instead of a liability. First, develop cross-national expertise while in Canada. Knowledgeable comparativists are still relatively rare. Second, be sure to publish by US standards so that your vita doesn't suffer on the return.
I agree, though I also don't have much experience here, and I might add that you'll have to find the right mix of Canadian journal outlets (to satisfy your academic home) and American journal outlets (to maintain market value here). Even holding standards constant, potential US employers will want to see that you have a presence here.
Rumor or not it would be a blow to UGA. They lost two faculty members in the last year that they cannot replace because of budget problems in the state...nearly lost at least one other faculty member. I wonder if they will be able to hold it together if they are not able to recruit.
UGA will be able to hold it together just fine. The two that were lost, if anything, were big hits teaching-wise. However, the department "recovered" from the loss. If UGA's ability to recruit is dampened, it isn't because the department can't cold it together, it's because the University System of Georgia is a mess.
Bertelli would be a loss, but there's enough weight in that department that it would still be as good as it ever was.
As a doctoral student and new AP, I used to get all worked up over rumors that big names would move. As a post-tenure associate, I've seen enough to know that it's never a big deal. People move. Programs survive. Nothing new.
If Whitford stays, the loss of Bertelli will not be a big deal for UGA, while Bertelli will definitely be a big plus to USC, where the lack of fresh blood in its public adm faculty has been a serious problem for several years. Any words on the other names shortlisted by USC?
publicservicecareers.org just posted a bunch of new faculty positions this past week, including several at PM powerhouses Indiana, Minnesota, Washington.
It can work only if you want to study micro-level congressional or "bureaucratic" behavior that has no meaning in the real of policy and management whatsoever.
I agree that it's largely a personal choice. We have bigger problems to deal with in PA than bashing political science. As an example, the latest JPART has yet another paper based on--you guessed it--the Texan school district data.
Without giving up names, but in the spirit of offering helpful information, junior public management applicants who are waiting for news shouldn't hold their breath. We received 50+ applications, many of which are from graduates of the same three programs: Georgia, Indiana, and Syracuse.
As an ABD in pa, I have two publications forthcoming (one at JPART/JPAM level journal, the other at PAR/ARPA/PSJ level journal. Both are co-authored papers). However, I am not from a top program in pa. Is there any chance I can get into a tier two research school in pa(say, Arizona State, Geogia State, etc.)? Thanks.
Of course you can get a PM job by going to another school, though I dare say that your prospects would be better suited at the three named.
I will admit, though, that some programs aren't appreciated as much as they should be...look at Arizona for example...they might not be as replete in alumni working at top institutions as those "big three" are, but some of their most recent products (e.g. Heikkila, Isett) seem to be doing very well for themselves. Has anyone seen Shomade's pedigree?? If he didn't get a job last year, he should be a very worthwhile prospect...
To 9:17 looking for advice on where to apply: Apply everywhre you're interested, and definitely dd not limit yourself to second tier schools. Your prospects can change quickly once you're in the mix. You never know what is driving search committee decisions.
1,292 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1001 – 1200 of 1292 Newer› Newest»I strongly disagree with 8:26's assessment. It might look bad if one or two decent publications don't come out of a post-doc, but the thought that all post-docs are for people who aren't offered a faculty position is not accurate. I would take a post-doc at certain institutions over a faculty position at others.
How about an assistant professor at California State Univ. v.s. a Post-doc at Harvard/Yale/Michigan? Any ideas?
Take Harvard/Yale/Michigan.
The post-doc.
I agree. Take the post-doc, but only if you are young/single/mobile.
Outside of the extreme comparisions (e.g. cal state v. harvard), a post doc in our field is a complete waste of time, amounting to little more than a glorified research assistantship. Only very low ranking programs get impressed by the name of the university, if it happens that the postdoc is in a prestigious one.
When hiring, I would be much more interested in a person who started and performed in a bad tt job looking to move up, than in a most likely a primadona who didn't come up with anything better than a postdoc.
Given a choice between an AP position and a post-doc, I would make my decision based on which program I liked the best, in terms of their strengths and location.
There are some post-docs that, if offered, I would have taken over certain AP positions because of their focus area. On the other hand, if the AP position was in a program that appealed to me, I would take that.
I started in an informal post-doc because I had young children and my husband was still finishing his graduate degree (I didn't want the tenure-track pressures). I was able to get new research underway, some work published, and some grant proposals out. I started my first AP job with two grants and pubs in the pipeline. I got tenure at a R1 university in three years, so in effect, I lost no time with the postdoc. For me, it couldn't have worked out better.
Invites for Minnowbrook III are out.
And?
And...you're either invited or you aren't. You don't expect the 50 people invited to reveal names, do you?
The agenda for the open part of Minnowbrook, "Phase II", will be made available next week.
Phase II?
Minnowbrook III is divided into two parts: Phase I, by invite only, for younger scholars who will discuss the state of the field at the Minnowbrook Conference Center in the Adirondacks September 3-5.
Phase II is the open conference on the state of the field (proposals were due 4/7), to be held at Lake Placid September 5-7.
The whole thing was originally scheduled to take place at Syracuse University September 26-30, but it was moved due to overlap with Rosh Hashana.
See: http://www.maxwell.syr.edu/pa/minnowbrook3/
"And...you're either invited or you aren't. You don't expect the 50 people invited to reveal names, do you?"
Then why broadcast it on the blog? Just seems like Maxwell is trying to save face by promoting some elitist conference that most PA scholars won't even care about because they were excluded. I thought PMRA was tough...guess I'd better start preparing for Minnowbrook IV in 2028.
The typical "big names" in PA will not invite the most interesting young people for a Minnowbrook-type conference.
While I understand some level of frustration over the selectivity of PMRA and Minnowbrook, those of us who killed ourselves to make it through the toughest programs and publish in top journals have earned our way into these events.
The bottom line is that there is no secret here. If you want to attend selective conferences in PA, study public management, public finance, or public policy at Maxwell, Indiana, Georgia, Kansas, TAMU, Suny Albany, USC, etc.
This is a winning formula that everyone knows and no one has a right to complain about.
What's the microfoundation of public administration? I guess the Minnowbrook conference should address this big question.
At least three faculty are leaving USC this year.
WOW - Who?
Seriously, who cares that much about all this Minnowbrook stuff? It's a conference, you go or you don't...and my disdain for the person writing in defense of Minnowbrook is just about equal to the person bashing it. Get over yourselves, both of you, and keep this blog to job rumors.
9:56, you need to practice what you preach. What exactly did you just add to the discussion?
All the important people got invitations to Minnowbrook III and all I got was this lousy t-shirt
About as much as you did, 6:32, so I guess we're even.
Is the afore mentioned USC, Southern California or South Carolina?
1:22 (5/8): What are the fields of the people leaving USC? Are they going to open a search for TT Asst. Professor for the 2009-2010 academic year?
More jobs will be available in SC for the 2008-2009 year...
R.I.P.
anyone know what happened with the UConn position?
Long Island University--Brooklyn Campus has invited candidates to interview for its Visiting Assistant Professor position. The position is for the 2008-2009 school year. Link to posting: http://www.publicservicecareers.org/?pageid=616&site_id=631
Anyone know any schools in the New York City area (Except LIU--Brooklyn) that will be searching for Public Management faculty for the 09-10 academic year?
As someone going onto the job market this fall I am curious what the world out there is looking like. Anyone have thoughts? Are we still looking as good as we have in the last couple of years or are things going to get a bit stickier with budgets being a bit tighter?
Got Finance?
We all know a finance specialization will make job hunting easier... but beyond that anyone have a feel on the market in the coming year?
It's hard to say. Some departments will inevitably have funding that they must use or lose, and who knows how that will affect the hiring. I am fairly confident that the market will be just as ripe as the past few years...there were still many from this year's job cycle that went unfilled.
How about those with an interest in nonprofits? How is that area looking for the future?
As an area, non-profit is looking almost as good as finance/budgeting. Across programs, the non-profit specialization has taken off like no other. Eventually, faculty will be hired to meet this demand.
Al Roberts went to Suffolk Law School, not the Public Administration program.
There is a new job wiki up for the 08-09 school year : "http://bluwiki.com/go/Publicpolicy0708"
opps that link should have been http://bluwiki.com/go/Publicpolicy0809
Trust me, 08-09 will be another great year for job seekers!
why should we trust you...we don't even know who you are?
You dont't have to trust him/her. Trust me!
Gazing into my crystal ball ... in the 08-09 market the following will happen:
- several ABDs from the "top" programs will be hired by January 1, leading to grousing about elite schools.
- Three or four candidates will get interviews at all of the first round schools, leading to more grousing about what they have that someone else doesn't.
How very positive and optimistic of you.
Maybe there is a reason they are elite?????
What schools will hire these ABDs from the top programs?
Are there any programs in the New York metro area that will be hiring for the 09-10 school year??????
Any word on the Wichita State Hugo School Director position?
So here's some news: PA Times has UT San Antonio advertising an open faculty position - presumably to replace Hager. Rumor also has it that NC State is looking for an associate/full for MPA program director.
The Department of Politics is seeking to appoint a Lecturer in Climate Change and Sustainability at either its Exeter or Cornwall campus, as part of the University's new cross-disciplinary "Climate Change and Sustainable Futures (CCSF)" initiative.
We seek applications from individuals whose research addresses political issues connected to climate change and sustainability such as, but not limited to, public understanding of science, regulation, global environmental governance, political economy and/or public policy. We invite applications from individuals with an excellent track-record or outstanding promise in research and obtaining grants, commensurate with the level of appointment, to join one of the largest and most diverse Politics departments in the UK.
We especially encourage applications from candidates who are interested in contributing actively to the CCSF theme by engaging with colleagues from across the university.
An ability to contribute to research methods training is desirable but not necessary.
Informal enquires to Dr Susan Banducci, Head of Politics: Tel 00 44 (0)1392 263170; email s.a.banducci@exeter.ac.uk . Application packs are available from http://www.admin.ex.ac.uk/personnel/jobs/app_eo_form.rtf
Email j.slaven@exeter.ac.uk quoting reference number S49N1761.
The starting salary will be in the range £30,763 - £34,624.
The closing date for applications is 12 noon 8th August 2008.
UGA lost two profs last year. Are they going to hire two this year? I heard a rumor that state budget cuts might be hitting the university hard.
UGA will not fill vacant positions.
How about Georgia State, for Pitts' position?
Anyone know what that does to the Valdosta St. position? They are a GA state university too.
ASPA put on a practitioner conference. Is ASPA still not aware that its annual conference *is* a practitioner conference?
They invite academics to one (and they dont' come) and not the other... is that the difference?
That must be it.
"Anyone know any schools in the New York City area (Except LIU--Brooklyn) that will be searching for Public Management faculty for the 09-10 academic year?"
At least five faculty are leaving Rutgers at Newark.
Yeah, and from what I hear, some by choice, some not...
3:49 That's fine, but irrelevant here. We must be careful not to spiral into the abyss of petty, non-market-related gossip - i.e., the political science blog.
Amen...
but with that said, does anyone know anything that is happening on the market THIS year? This board has been so so quite, and so so uninformative, for so so long.
What areas of specialization do u think Rutgers--Newark will be looking for?
Second comment (5:43): Considering the situation in Georgia does anyone think the market will be thin this year because of state budgetary problems?
Newark lost a budget person, so I'm guessing that will at least one of those positions
Anybody know when the jobs will start cranking? Not a bad selection of current openings, but I don't think it's the strongest either.
True, the pool isn't great in an objective sense, but it's tremendous for this time of year. Usually there aren't half this many jobs until mid-October.
Any knowledge of administrative jobs open this year or holdovers from last year?
Thinking about MPA Directors, Chairs, Directors?
I already know about the NC State and South Carolina MPA jobs thanks to this list.
If any here are members of the APSA, I would invite you to consider joining the boycott of the 2012 meetings in New Orleans.
As a reminder, the issue revolves around APSA policy about not holding meetings in places where discrimination may be harmful to our colleagues. In this case, Louisiana passed one of the most restrictive constitutional amendments that not only banned same sex marriage, but also all incidents of marriage as well (which would include benefits, same sex unions, and that could legally extend to adoption, visitation in hospitals ect.
To learn more about the boycott, please go to http://www.danpinello.com to see the statement, the list of over 300signers, and an email of where you can add your name to the list.
I boycott it every year because it adds nothing to my year
Even though this is suppose to be a job market blog, I sympathize with 3:08's point of view. With that said, don’t you think instead of boycotting the conference that it would be more productive to attend the conference and have an open and constructive dialog on the state's policy toward LGBT rights. Maybe that will shed some light on the discriminatory policies and its effect on the LGBT community. After all we are academics and we discuss and debate issues for a living. Boycotting the conference en masse will hurt a city that has already endured enough pain and suffering. Attending the conference and discussing the issue head will help the city while bringing attention to an important issue.
As the person who posted the snippet about the boycott, I wanted to respond to the above poster's really nice response.
I appreciate the point of view that you hold, however, I have thought about it long and hard and came to the opposite conclusion.
First, let me address your concerns. No one in the boycott wishes to harm the people of New Orleans who are suffering, but to argue that our conference that was planned years ago and was seven years away at the time is the best way to help New Orleans is beside the point. We should help now. Many of us have pledge to donate now to a number of charities that get money directly to the 9th Ward. Unlike what a multiplier effect would bring to multinational corporations.
Second, on the hearts and minds issue. No conference that I have ever been to has ever stirred much attention beyond its walls. Attending and talking primarily to ourselves sends very little message. Even a well staged protest would not.
My conclusion to support is based on the many friends and relatives that have been hurt by these laws. Most were fashioned in states where it was already illegal and where the amendments were intended to raise right wing voter turnout. Very sad, in my opinion.
Last, I hope this is persuasive, but I live in a state where an amendment came up and was thwarted. The reason was that the business community determined that it was not only wrong but was harmful to the economics of the state.
To me, this boycott has already raised awareness inside the profession and has gotten attention outside academce. More than attending and speakign would. The big thing I care about now is that future states, and Lousiana, take the consequences of what they delivered when they decided to discrinate. Discrimination has economic consequences, let them feel them.
Kindly and most well intentioned. Best to you.
I'm with 13/8/08 5:25 AM. Boycotting APSA every year would go even further to encourage meaningful research and change in public policy.
Re: 12/8/08 3:04 PM
Appalachian State University is looking for a MPA director. Check
publicservicecareers.org for the posting.
What does the market look like this year in terms of candidates? Last year I saw a pretty strong group of candidates just wondering if the trend will continue this year.
How is the non-academic job market? I never see any discussion of these type of jobs. I have been weighing whether to take an academic job or go work for a think tank or government (federal or state). A lot of the jobs I have seen pay pretty well and seem to have a more direct policy impact than being in academia. Plus you can teach on the side and make some extra cash. Any thoughts?
How is the non-academic job market? I never see any discussion of these type of jobs. I have been weighing whether to take an academic job or go work for a think tank or government (federal or state). A lot of the jobs I have seen pay pretty well and seem to have a more direct policy impact than being in academia. Plus you can teach on the side and make some extra cash. Any thoughts?
Non-academic is a wonderful idea but just remember it can be difficult to get back into academia later. That being said I think academia is a bit over-rated in our field...low pay, heavy teaching load (many cases), and the publish or perish mentality. Personally, I am going the non-academic route...fewer positions but I am willing to take the risk..
This will irk many of the defensive bloggers on here, but the reality is this: All of those downsides to academia--low pay, high teaching load, etc.--do not apply to those who sacrifice the time and personal comfort to attend a top program.
I don't know a single person who's graduated from a top program and feels he or she teaches too much or could make significantly more money in a think tank.
And besides, *fewer* positions in practice? In a good year, there are 20 or so academic positions. Meanwhile, there are thousands of think tanks, not to mention the 50 states and 90,000 local governments.
Where does that leave those of us who were not fortunate enough to go to a "good school"? I think that people on this board are too caught up with rankings and good schools (btw I come from a "top 5" school so this is not sour grapes). I am sure we will all agree that there are many great students who come from decent but not top programs each year who are overlooked and have to work twice as hard to get a decent job. That is sad and explains the state of the PA field today. Focus less on rankings and more on individuals.
Hiring committees work on such imperfect information that it becomes impossible not to use information about the PhD institution as a means of sorting through the candidates. Having said that, I think that people look a lot more at the people on the candidate's committee and the letter writers than the name on the diploma. A candidate with a very strong letter from a very good scholar at a place ranked 5-50 would probably do better than a candidate with lukewarm letters from the B-team at Syracuse. It just happens that productivity and ranking are highly correlated.
I am the person who posted regarding the non-academic job market (15/8/08 3:20 PM). There seems to be an obsession on this blog with rankings. I am so fed up with this mindset. I have deal with this on a regular basis at my program (Top 10 program). That is why I am seriously considering leaving academia. Aside from the low pay and teaching load, the fact that I do not get to practice (in the real world not in an ivory tower) skill that I am teaching really bothers me. It make no sense to me that we are so caught up with ratings and labels but we rarely focus on people who have had the experience a practitioner as being a good academic. The saying “those who can’t do teach” seems to fit many of those who choose focus on ranking rather than substance and practice.
Ouch. Someone is grumpy. But seriously, in the "real" world people focus on rankings all over the place. Largest this, biggest that, faster whatever. Lawyers and medial doctors, to professions coming to mind right now, are rarely accused of not being in the real world, but the definitely DO care about rankings too. We've got a billboard in our downtown touting #1 hospital something or another. So any illusion that academia is different, just isn't the case. Seems to me that some of us want to be academics and others do not. That is fine, it is not for everyone, but let's bring things into perspective here.
Maybe I came off a little grumpy and I do understand that academia is not for everyone, but my original point was that we rarely discuss non-academic jobs on this blog. It seems a little unbalanced to me. And of cause ratings are ubiquitous in the professional world, I am just a little tired of those who focus so much on ranking and labels, and not on how we can improve government and public policy.
I thought this was an academic job blog, not a blog for the other stuff.
To the disgruntled poster, we get it--academia can't please you. Rather than looking for support of your arguments here, which you won't find (it's a blog by and for academics), resolve within yourself what it is that you want. Those who responded to you were honest and insightful, and what they said changes nothing for you, nothing will. 17/8/08 7:44 PM took extra care to move the discussion beyond raw rankings.
Unfortunately, you have a fixed conclusion (a false conclusion, in my opinion)-- that academia doesn't pay well and the teaching load is high--and you want someone to provide you with supporting arguments. I could be wrong, but it's highly unlikely that this will happen here.
On the low pay issue, compensation is what you make of it and is only part of what you get from a job. I have 0 bosses, 1 house, 2 cars, 3 kids, 4 pets, and almost infinite sick and vacation days. Not to mention creative freedom.
Those interested in non-academic career track need to join wrk4us.
http://www.jhfc.duke.edu/fhi/wrk4us/index.php
I'm not convinced that the pay differential is that significant. You can't compare the 9-month pay of an academic to the annual pay of a consultant/researcher/manager/policy wonk. Academics can earn substantial income doing consulting, teaching in the summer, applied research, and grants. If you compare 12-month work to 12-month work, then I really don't think you'll see a whole lot of difference - *holding constant the "quality" of the job*. Don't compare a 4-4 load at Mom and Pop's MPA Program to partner-track consultant at IBM.
A friend of mine at the University of North Texas's Department of Public Administration has asked me to recommend someone who is willing to work for a one year visiting position. The load is 3-2 for 55K a year. This person would teach program eval and some basic PA courses. UNT is located in a northern part of the Dallas-Fortworth Metroplex. Its PA program has been ranked in Top 10 in the City Management & Urban Policy area. Please let the person contact Bob Bland bbland@unt.edu or Abraham Benavides benavides@unt.edu .
American University is looking for a Asst. Professor of PA
Does it make sense to pay attention to jobs that are posted on the APSA website anymore? Some of the older faculty have recommended that I join to see their job boards, but others aren't sure it's worth the $40 to join if that is the only reason.
Not unless you want to work in a political science department. You don't.
Minnowbrook Phase I Participants:
Dominic Bearfield (TAMU)
Tom Bryer (UCF)
Brenda Bushouse (UMASS)
Tom Catlaw (ASU)
Robert Christensen (UNC-Charlotte)
Leisha Dehart-Davis (Kansas)
Angela Eikenberry (Nebraska-Omaha)
Kyle Farmbry (Rutgers-Newark)
Mary Feeney (Illinois-Chicago)
Sergio Fernandez (Indiana)
Beth Gazley (Indiana)
Heather Getha-Taylor (South Carolina)
Holly Goerdel (Kansas)
Susan Gooden (VCU)
Maja Holmes (WVU)
Horiuchi (USFCA)
Yilin Hou (Georgia)
Kimberly Isett (Columbia)
Willow Jacobson (UNC-Chapel Hill)
Soonhee Kim (Syracuse)
Sharon Kioko (Syracuse)
Kristina Lambright (SUNY-Binghamton)
Kelly LeRoux (Kansas)
Jared Llorens (Kansas)
Justin Marlowe (Kansas)
David Matkin (FSU)
Matthew Mingus (Western Michigan)
Pamela Mischen (SUNY-Binghamton)
Anthony Molina (South Dakota)
Michael Moody (Kansas)
Ricardo Morse (UNC-Chapel Hill)
Stephanie Moulton (Indiana)
Don Moynihan (Wisconsin)
Tina Nabatchi (Syracuse)
Rebecca Nesbit (UNC-Charlotte)
Anna Ni (Californina State-San Bernadino)
Sean Nicholson-Crotty (Missouri)
Shelly Peffer (LIU-Brooklyn)
Suzanne Piotrowski (Rutgers-Newark)
Ora-orn Poocharoen (Lee Kuan)
Shannon Portillo (George Mason)
Scott Robinson (TAMU)
Ellen Rubin (SUNY-Albany)
Jodi Sandfort (Minnesota)
Charles Schweik (UMASS)
Craig Smith (Arizona)
Daniel Smith (Rutgers-Newark)
Jessica Sowa (Cleveland State)
Dragan M. Staniševski (Mississippi State)
Margaret Stout (Bridgewater State)
David Van Slyke (Syracuse)
Brad Wright (UNC-Charlotte)
Kaifeng Yang (FSU)
Zhirong Zhao (Minnesota)
Re: Minnowbrook Phase 1
Seriously, who cares?
Could we get back to actual public policy jobs for this year?
Yes, who cares? Let's get on with it. That *one* post made all our lives qualitatively less good.
I know of at least five people who declined Minnowbrook, too, so the list is missing some folks who found better use of their time.
I don't get the "I'm so cool because I declined a conference" mentality. Attending a conference does not mean attendees had nothing better to do. That's a logical fallacy. Even still, what the hell is so cool about being too busy with other things to attend a conference?
I don't have a dog in the fight, but I think the logical fallacy is in jumping from somebody not attending a conference to them being "too cool" because they "declined" the conference. Aren't we imputing some attitude here that may not exist?
I am surprised and disappointed at the lack of collegiality reflected in these comments about Minnowbrook. So you (a) didn't want to go (b) didn't get invited or (c) wouldn't go if you were invited. Good for you. Now get over yourself and stop passing judgement on those who behave differently than you do.
There are plenty of young scholars in PA and Policy who will attend because they hope to find the exchange of ideas intellectually useful. They might even generate some ideas that benefit the field.
My guess is that most fall under (b), but say that they fall under (c), and not a one of them falls under (a).
I did not get invited to Minnowbrook, but I want to know why there is so much disdain for it on this blog. I am not going to criticize anyone but I want to know where all this ill-will comes from. From the outside looking in it looks like this conference will help young scholars make our discipline relevant again, which has been lacking for the last couple of years (or even decades).
What is Minnowbrook's purpose?
Change of topic, somewhat job market related: Is anyone else concerned that, except for in a few programs, Ph.D.s in public affairs and/or administration are given out like Pez? Doesn't admitting and graduating unqualified candidates cheapen our field and the idea of an interdisciplinary Ph.D. altogether?
Two things...
1) I think the list of scholars participating in Minnowbrook's first phase is diverse and eclectic, and I hope they produce something worthwhile while they're there. I was not invited, but rather than lament that by saying something asinine like, "I have more pubs than so-and-so and HE was invited?" I wish them nothing but a good experience. I still have work to do regardless. Minnowbrook won't make or break my career.
2) I see the concern about some programs dolling out doctorates like no tomorrow, but not in terms of the job market necessarily. The good programs (and more importantly, job candidates) have distinguished themselves to somewhat separate the wheat from the chaff. There are certain unnamed programs that might graduate ten people, but produce one academic job candidate. I see no need to worry at this point, however, I think better screening of potential students is definitely in order.
I'm glad someone brought this up. It's true the most deserving candidates always will be competitive, but we still look dumb with so many PhDs out there. Not quite at crisis stage (i.e. EdD) but headed there. We're supposed to be a mix of political science, management, economics, history, and philosophy. Yet it is harder to earn a PhD in the worst department in any of these disciplines than in many public affairs programs. It's time to get serious.
Maybe my idea of the PA PhD is clouded because I'm in a program right now (a very good one I might add), but there is nothing easy about. There is no doctoral "Pez" dispenser. The only thing given out for free is well nothing. It is all the result of hard work, long nights, and numerous headaches. Maybe because I'm living in a academic world that is rigorous and challenging that I don't see that free pass you all talk about, but to me it seems like there are far too many cynics. The ABDs of my world are future scholars, hard workers, and are not looking for a free handout. No, we want to be part of a competent, challenging discipline, not one filled with a bunch of whiners and cynics. I'm realistic, I know I'll may end up at a department with a Minnowbrook hater or two; a PhD degree as Pez believer or two... but I pray my generation of scholars isn't so negative on its own field. Yes I want us to challenge the norms, the theories, the ideas, but I'm not seeing it here. That is probably because of the type of forum this is...anonymous.
In response to a question posed a while ago, the hiring freeze in Georgia is for all public schools with no exceptions.
If Ph.D.'s in PA are given out like Pez, then why is there still a serious shortage of Professors of PA in academia? With the retiring wave of the baby boomers happening very soon, this shortage will only increase. Please, someone actually look at data instead of perceptions. There is not a glut of Ph.Ds in PA and they are not handed out like Pez.
On the PA PhD supply/demand issue, from my perspective, the PA faculty and administrators making the PhD admissions decisions seem to have a pretty good handle on the size of the market. I cannot speak for Policy, but I can tell you that my (high ranked) school competes hard for new scholars. So I wouldn't agree that there's a "glut" of PhD candidates or that we are over-subscribing. I think most of us in the field would argue that supply is not meeting demand.
Contrast that to my spouse's academic experience in the humanities. Despite an Ivy degree, he struggled to find a first job, finally beating out 200 other candidates for a second tier TT job. We would scream and whine if we had that kind of experience in PA/PP! The difference? In his case, admissions faculty were convinced that there would be all kinds of attrition among the senior ranks, creating all kinds of new openings for their doctoral students. So they over-admitted students, and then couldn't place them.
Maybe this is reason #237 why it's good to have economists in OUR field! (Don't jump on me, that was tongue in cheek).
I believe the original poster was focusing more on the ease of getting the degree in many departments--not the raw number. Anyone who's ever been on a hiring committee knows that there are some sad programs out there: some require no comps, some have never failed a comps taker, others will sign virtually any dissertation (which always shows in the candidate seminar), etc.
The worst of the bunch are the online doctorates, and they are definitely not few. Just look on ProQuest and see how many Ph.D.'s have been doled out by Walden and Capella.
Obviously those who attend quality programs aren't taxed by those who don't. Saturating the world with pseudo-Ph.D.'s eventually will, however, cheapen at least its perceived value.
From the Chronicle: PA job openings at Southern Illinois University at Edwardsville (Budgeting, Quant), University of South Dakota, Appalachian State University, Troy University, University of Wisconsin Green Bay, Augustana College (Policy).
Let the games begin.
I wholeheartedly agree with 5:48. I would also like to add another point. Have any of us considered that alot of PhD in PA and associated fields do not go into academia but rather work for think tanks, government, and the non-profit sector. It may be a question of making academia more attractive so the best people do not go off the academic trail.
Can someone comment on the opening at Colorado? Their listing says must have PhD in PolSci. oversight or a jobs program for PS grads?
I thought that was weird too...but just ignored it.
The CU job is in a polisci department. They want a political scientist.
Not to beat a dead horse or anything, but does anyone have any information pertaining to this blog??? Such as job rumors, or we just going to continue to harp on degree mills and Minnowbrook?
I don't think there's a whole lot of information about jobs right now... I am guessing most of them are posted by this point if they are going to be, with the exception of a couple I've heard about.
If that's really the case, then we're in for a dismal market this year...
Kentucky just posted for four positions. Let's see if they actually pan out this year.
Those KY jobs look great - the market is kind of bad this year job-wise... I am sure they will snatch somebody good up if they act quickly.
With all the problems that KY has had getting people in the last couple of years...can we assume there is a reason people have been going elsewhere? Meaning, is U of K a bad place?
On the contrary, many yet-to-be-announced positions have been discussed at Minnowbrook.
So are you going to give us the scoop on those jobs or are we going to have to wait?
What is Minnowbrook? Is it kind of a big deal?
NC State job cancelled until further notice...budget problems.
Unless you're geographically restricted, any junior applicant should apply to Kentucky. Sure, they had some trouble last year, but the salaries are not bad at all and it's a very well-regarded department.
I just returned from Minnowbrook. I've never seen so many self-important windbags under the age of 35 in my entire life.
Considering 2/3 of the Phase I participants were 35 and over, you're either singling out the wrong people, weren't invited and are bitter, or both.
Yeah - just because 2/3 of the participants were over 35 doesn't mean that the earlier poster could not have seen the largest number of <35 windbags in her life at the conference.
I went to Minnowbrook, and your lack of basic logic skills tells me that you were probably there, too.
The intensity with which anonymous strangers try to one-up anonymous strangers really says a lot about the size of egos in the academia. That said, the "look at me" crowd deserves all the disdain it gets (as in the perfectly reasonable response above) and more. Shmoozing gets you only this far. Some years down the road it always becomes apparent who is full of it (or not), regardless of who they hang out with.
There was talk earlier that those at Minnowbrook actually have some info (or rumors) on JOBS (the actual point of this blog)... so why don't we all try and stop the one upsmanship and spill the beans already.
I couldn't care less who has the biggest ego...I just need a job.
Moving beyond the dejected and the inflated, there are rumors of at least 12-15 jobs that will be posted. No one knows how widely spread these rumors are, though, so they're naturally reticent to share.
Oh yeah, well I went to Minnowbrook and I've never seen such a collection of self-important windbags between the ages of 45 and 49 and between the ages of 78 and 84 but not 81.
Did anything worth talking about, academically speaking, happen at Minnowwhatever?
Moving past the Minnowborook antipathy, what's the deal with this comment:
"there are rumors of at least 12-15 jobs that will be posted."
Does this person or anyone else have a clue as to what schools are going to be hiring? Considering the the annocments so far, its a pretty sad season. This is a job blog I am sick of coming on to here and reading cryptic postings about the market. If you know job is coming on-line say where they are or just don't post!!!!!!!
I have a something of substance. Rutgers--Newark is hiring for numerous postions for the next academic year. The flieds are going to be Finance and Methods and may be other fields dendpending on the pool.
Come on people the economy is pertty rough nowadays. Could we just try to help each other instaead of launcing dim-witted acttacks about a conference that is not going to affect whether or not we are going to get jobs.
Did Southern California ever fill their PM positions?
First, saying more jobs will be posted *is* a rumor. Second, more rumors does not equate with more jobs or more offers. Your frustration cannot be mollified with more and better rumors.
Southern California has to be very aggressive in hiring this year. They have 5 tt and 3 ntt positions now. Maybe more will be coming out soon.
I'd honsetly like to believe the Minnowbrook 15 jobs rumor, but I cannot, because it makes no sense: why would anybody discuss 15 jobs at a restricted conference where all participants by definition have a job? So don't put too much hope into this, some whiz kid with bad publication record is messing with you.
That argument is akin to: Why would a bunch of economists at AEA (more exclusive than Minnowbrook Phase II) discuss multiple job opportunities? Why on earth would we want to discuss potential recruits and changes in our departments?
Not everyone at Minnowbrook has a job... some are ABD. Hence discussing jobs seems quite logical.
Also, imagine this: Some people may want to move to another institution. Shocking, I know.
There were even some at Minnowbrook who aren't ABD...
Also, have people noticed some of the new postings? They're starting to come in...
I am really disappointed in the Minnowbrook-III antipathy. The people there were interested in making their FIELD better -- something from which we all benefit. What a bunch of sour grape-heads. I am a regular contributor of job info to this blog, and I COULD tell you about some of those jobs discussed at M-3but right now I'm not in the mood. You're on your own.
I think that M antipathy here is not really a function of sour grapes, but a function of the immature behavior of 1-2 apparently very insecure boys/girls who somehow slid through the cracks and were able to attend and then came here to tell us everything about it. (I might even know some of them and if so that's precisely the case.) Other than that, I see no problem with exclusive conferences, except that the selection process obviously needs to me more rigorous.
Seriously folks...
Minnowbrook bashing = dead horse
Jobs are starting to open up, any new thoughts?
IGPA Resource and Policy Analyst.
Chicago Campus
The “Fiscal Futures Project” is an undertaking of the Institute of Government and Public Affairs (IGPA) of the University of Illinois, with the support of a number of civic organizations. The Resource and Policy Analyst will develop a fiscal forecasting model for the state government of Illinois that can be used for long term fiscal planning and will construct modules for key revenue sources and expenditure categories, link each to relevant demographic or economic variables, and combine them in a unified model. Candidates must possess a Master’s degree in public policy, public administration, economics, accounting, business, or related field is required; Ph.D preferred.
It is anticipated that this will be a full time position for the duration of the project but is dependent upon external funding. To assure full consideration, a letter of interest and a current resume including name, address and phone number of three professional references, should be submitted by October 10, 2008; email submissions preferred. **Applicants not providing all required materials will not be considered.
Patricia McKenzie
University of Illinois
Employee Relations and Human Resources
271 Henry Administration Building, MC 341
506 South Wright Street
Urbana, IL 61801
(217) 333-2600
fax: (217) 239-6738
email: VPAAjobs@uillinois.edu The
Is Brooks leaving Syracuse or just stepping out of his chair? I see that one of the positions Syracuse is recruiting for is the Bantle Chair.
Rutgers-Newark should be posting for a number of open positions (4-5) in the next few weeks. They are looking for people in budgeting, public management, and urban entrepreneurship. The ranks of the positions are going to be open.
Brooks is the new head of AEI
Ah...
Would I sound too cynical then if I said, "Go figure?"
Well at least he doesn't have to pretend to do positivist research anymore. So academia will survive w/o AB Inc. Let's get back to the job openings now.
Anyone know if Cleveland St. is hiring this year? I'd heard something to that effect a few weeks back, but no official work yet.
Aside from the usual bash New Jersey jokes, does anyone know why Rutgers-Newark can't seem to retain anyone? Trying to decide whether to apply.
They get other opportunities; it happens. Look how many people funnel through the Bush School.
Could we start a discussion on salaries in PA/PP? As a Associate who is looking, how much compression has taken place over the last few years?
Other disciplines (especially the B-schools) share salary data about new hires. An informed market can only help.
State salary databases are really easy to find these days. There are so few private schools with brand name PA/Policy programs that you really don't need anything else.
This may go without saying but when looking at these figures consider that some faculty pad their salaries with constant winter/summer teaching.
Some state databases are accessible, some are not listed by line-item. I'd also just like to see other important factors like course load and release time (as a new hire and for administrative duties).
Any place worth working at will be willing to negotiate at least one course release (2-1 load) for the first year if not for three or even five years. Likewise, any place worth working at won't ask junior faculty to take on administrative duties. If you're a program that doesn't play ball, will you get a candidate? Sure, probably. Will you get the best? No.
I'm an associate in a department where the old guard reigns. They refuse to acknowledge the new market and we're getting pummeled as a result.
Because state legislatures can be wary of course reductions, we've increased RA hours and travel money for pre-tenure faculty and worked it out so that pre-tenure faculty have fixed teaching schedules. It's a hit.
Would it be career suicide to go after a job at a Canadian university if, as an American, you want to return to the US academic work some day? As someone newer to this work, I don't know how they compare. I know there are some very good scholars at Canadian universities, but they tend to be Canadian.
Hell, with the dollar tanking, you're better off in Canada.
I don't have a lot of experience in this, but two things come to mind that could help turn your Canadian gig into an asset instead of a liability. First, develop cross-national expertise while in Canada. Knowledgeable comparativists are still relatively rare. Second, be sure to publish by US standards so that your vita doesn't suffer on the return.
I agree, though I also don't have much experience here, and I might add that you'll have to find the right mix of Canadian journal outlets (to satisfy your academic home) and American journal outlets (to maintain market value here). Even holding standards constant, potential US employers will want to see that you have a presence here.
As long as one can continue to publish in jpart, jpam, nvsq, par, it does not matter where one is located.
"cross-national expertise" is not very much appreciated in the general field of pa or pp.
Cross national expertise was one of the main topics of discussion at Minnowbrook III, and it is indeed appreciated (but lacking) in pa/pp.
Rumor that Southern California has scheduled flyouts and that Bertelli (Georgia) is one of the candidates.
And it's just that. A rumor.
Rumor or not it would be a blow to UGA. They lost two faculty members in the last year that they cannot replace because of budget problems in the state...nearly lost at least one other faculty member. I wonder if they will be able to hold it together if they are not able to recruit.
UGA will be able to hold it together just fine. The two that were lost, if anything, were big hits teaching-wise. However, the department "recovered" from the loss. If UGA's ability to recruit is dampened, it isn't because the department can't cold it together, it's because the University System of Georgia is a mess.
Bertelli would be a loss, but there's enough weight in that department that it would still be as good as it ever was.
As a doctoral student and new AP, I used to get all worked up over rumors that big names would move. As a post-tenure associate, I've seen enough to know that it's never a big deal. People move. Programs survive. Nothing new.
If Whitford stays, the loss of Bertelli will not be a big deal for UGA, while Bertelli will definitely be a big plus to USC, where the lack of fresh blood in its public adm faculty has been a serious problem for several years. Any words on the other names shortlisted by USC?
publicservicecareers.org just posted a bunch of new faculty positions this past week, including several at PM powerhouses Indiana, Minnesota, Washington.
Can anyone offer any advice on taking a "policy" job in a political science department vs. a policy or public affairs shop?
It can work if you are a political scientist.
It can work only if you want to study micro-level congressional or "bureaucratic" behavior that has no meaning in the real of policy and management whatsoever.
Yeah, those "micro-level Congressional" behaviors don't affect policy outcomes. For instance, look at the bailout package.
seems to me to more an issue of personal preference in the PS/PA/PP dept debate
I agree that it's largely a personal choice. We have bigger problems to deal with in PA than bashing political science. As an example, the latest JPART has yet another paper based on--you guessed it--the Texan school district data.
Oh, man. There's a can of worms...
Rumor has it that Maxwell is targeting Bozeman for its Bantle Chair.
Bozeman following Brooks as Bantle Chair?? Quite interesting...
That would be a big loss for Georgia. Bozeman would help make up for people leaving Syracuse.
Has to be a huge offer to get Barry to leave UGA...
Now, THAT would be a tough position for UGA to fill in a budget crisis.
He has one or two endowed chairs at Georgia. The position is probably mostly or completely funded by the endowment.
I heard through a credible source that American is doing some telephone interviews
The policy jobs wiki, in previous years, was teeming with names for flyouts, phone calls, etc. Are hiring committees more tight-lipped?
Hell, they should be...
Without giving up names, but in the spirit of offering helpful information, junior public management applicants who are waiting for news shouldn't hold their breath. We received 50+ applications, many of which are from graduates of the same three programs: Georgia, Indiana, and Syracuse.
Here we go with the you-can-only-get-a-PM-job-if-you-went-to-Syracuse-Indiana-or-Georgia spiel...
is it shocking that three schools with strong PM scholars are producing graduates with a strong PM record and desire to fill PM positions?
As an ABD in pa, I have two publications forthcoming (one at JPART/JPAM level journal, the other at PAR/ARPA/PSJ level journal. Both are co-authored papers). However, I am not from a top program in pa. Is there any chance I can get into a tier two research school in pa(say, Arizona State, Geogia State, etc.)?
Thanks.
Absolutely. Don't be afraid to apply to top programs as well.
Of course you can get a PM job by going to another school, though I dare say that your prospects would be better suited at the three named.
I will admit, though, that some programs aren't appreciated as much as they should be...look at Arizona for example...they might not be as replete in alumni working at top institutions as those "big three" are, but some of their most recent products (e.g. Heikkila, Isett) seem to be doing very well for themselves. Has anyone seen Shomade's pedigree?? If he didn't get a job last year, he should be a very worthwhile prospect...
Speaking of top prospects, who are some of the rising stars on the market?
We're not hiring this year, but I'm curious to know who I might look at for the future...
Advice to applicants: Check up with your letter writers! Receiving a ton of incomplete applications. Yes, even from the "good" places.
To 9:17 looking for advice on where to apply: Apply everywhre you're interested, and definitely dd not limit yourself to second tier schools. Your prospects can change quickly once you're in the mix. You never know what is driving search committee decisions.
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